The Quality of train shows today

[pennman]

I'd like to put my 2 cents in here, I have to agree with alot that has been said.
The last show I was at was billed out to be this great thing. Cost 10.00 to park 7.00 to get in you went down stairs to a basement in the stadium in this cramped room with all the dealers on top of each other. The prices where either close to retail or the same as if you purchased it in a store. People where rude and jammed into each other. It was just a waste.
I use to like going to shows you could find good discounts, friendly people, odd items from ma/pa manufactures.

Now I'd rather just do the Hobby shop or just buy online, the shows just arent there anymore.

Id have to agree with Tom; kids now adays could care less about using there minds and hands to build something. We have a train display at the town museum evryone is invited to help and see any age,race male or female, you hardly see and kids come down anymore. When the do come all they want to do is play on the computer, cell phone nd Ipods.

But this is also our faults as well, the schools take shop out of the class schedule, almost no employers offer apprenticship programs anymore so there is no hands on for kids to learn the trades and skills we all know.
We buy our kids video games and computers,and calculators(school requires them) there is a TV and VCR in everyroom. Most of the times we are either to busy working to pay bills or just plain old beat by the time we get home to do much with our kids. Family time and quiet nights are things of the past.
Sometimes I think TECH has taken to much away from our lives.
It seems to be true though that Modeling will always be around, it just doesnt seem to get hold of kids till the get older and relize there is more than just computers out there.
But these are just my ramblings!

[boppa]

I have already put in my 2 cents but as I was reading the last couple of comments I got to thinking. How hard and expensive is it to do a train show? Now if I were to do it I think I would ask other modelers what they look for in a show and try to do what they suggest. Also it would be a train show not a toy show or craft show.

we had some pretty good ones recently (no pics unfortunately as I left my work phone at home)

one completely filled `warehouse shed' and a 2nd partially filled

I got to chatting with one of the operators (heard him talking electronics and my ears pricked up as thats what I am into LOL)

dont know about stateside- but here in Aussie it was actually so expensive I was shocked

there was the hiring of the sheds (that worked out about $500 per club :-O )

then the public liability insurance was another 200 bucks per club there

transport (some clubs hired pantech trucks and drove 3 to 4 hrs to get there, and had quite a few members that had driven their own cars as well)

for some of the smaller clubs that only had 4 or 5 people there- that was a couple of hundred dollars each they had paid to get there

even for the bigger clubs that werent local, they had motel accomodation for the 2 day show (1 club had over a dozen people from 200km away...at least 6 motel rooms if they dont mind sharing a room at 140 bucks a night per room)

if any of them made a cent out of it, i'd be shocked

most probably paid a couple of hundred or more to be there

scary...

[Russ Bellinis]

Over here most of the national train shows like World's Greatest Hobby or Great Train Expo pay clubs an honorarium to be at the show. They realize that the modular layouts are the primary draw for the general public. When a local tv station covers a show, they don't show the vendors booths, they show layouts. The problem for the promoter of a train show is that if you are going to promote a show in a large metropolitan area, at least in California, you won't find an empty warehouse, you will either need to use a county fairgrounds building or a convention center. Neither of those options is cheap for the promoter. He has to pay regardless of turnout and be "out of pocket" before the show opens. By nature out here the shows are generally not going to be geared towards the active model railroader. When a train show is put on the model railroaders will show up, but if the promoter does not attract a large number of families, the show will lose money. The vendors all pay for a table or booth. The show promoter is not going to enforce any sort of dress code on the vendors. To me the most interesting thing about train shows, aside from having an opportunity to play with my trains, is the interaction with manufacturer's reps at many of the shows. In most cases when a manufacturer has representatives at a show, they are usually the very people who are responsible for the new product releases. If there is something you would like to see offered that is currently not available, interaction with the manufacturer at a train show is an excellent way to have an input on future products.

[boppa]

they pay them to be there??

(bet some of the locals would love that)

here they pay to be there- and hope to recover some of their expenses (at best)

remember that this show was in a city of about 40 thousand people- even if every single person went there and spent 10 dollars- that would barely cover their expenses if at all...

[Brakie]

Russ,As I mention I went to 5 shows last year and enjoyed each one in its own way..However,2 of those shows stand out in my mind as great shows the Berea Show(4 buildings) and the Dalton show 1 extremely large building..Plenty of good deals was to be found and plenty of room even though I was bumped into several times and I almost fell over a guy in a wheel chair that was easing up to the table as I turn to walk away.A most embarrassing thing.. :oops:

The other 3 was good shows overall but,not as big.

I suppose any train show amounts to several things including what we put into it.One of the guys that rode with us to the Berea show complain he couldn't find any "deals" yet,I found many had I been focusing my hunt on HO and not N..The difference is he rush through the show and I took over 2 hours to view the tables in those 4 buildings as did the other guy..

Russ,About vendors dress codes..A vendor will more then likely unload his own vehicle and set up his table(s) and I can understand why most don't want to dress like they was going to Church.Casual dress is a must for vendors for several reasons especially for the amount of work involved hours before the show.

[BR60103]

We do our show in a hockey rink after the ice melts. We budget fairly tightly but if a normal crowd comes we make a few thousand dollars -- we're not in it for the money. We try to disperse the surplus back to the layout exhibitors. Our manager's practise is to have the fixed expenses covered by the vendors' table rents.
Most of the smaller shows here are in some sort of community center. A long time ago we ran into a problem that almost all the public spaces were regularly taken up on Sunday mornings by religious groups.
There is one large "professionally" run show that takes a couple of halls in an exhibition center. (used to be 2 shows like that) I'm going to one tomorrow in a private recreation complex. It's mostly sales; some layouts but not many. It's in Kitchener on the day after the big layout tours.

[Chuck]

The train shows lately seem to be attracting the large dealers and business dealers who tend to be very commercial in their merchandise. When I go to a train show, I look for the dealers that are not the "business" dealers -- the ones that make their living off train shows. They tend to have the same items and pricing as a hobby center. I look for deals and the unusual/unique items -- the business dealers tend to carry what will sell which is what a hobby center will carry. The smaller 1-2 table dealers tend to have the unusual items and good deals. I was at a show this summer where I came across a guy selling off his surplus track and other items he no longer needed. We got to to talking and he ended up giving me one heck of a deal -- $2.50 for turnouts -- #4's and $6's. I dropped a lot of cash into his pocket! Here is the thing that really turned me off to the business dealers -- I overheard two of them complaining about this guy and some other "yard salers" that were taking business away from them. These "one and two table guys" shouldn't be allowed in the show. Nice. Unfortunately, I have come across this attitude from other vendors at other shows. What a bunch of jerks. Thus, I tend to buy from the non-business dealers. Just my two cents...

[sgtcarl1]

[Russ Bellinis]

Unfortunately, we don't have "yard salers" at any train shows in California. California has a state sales tax that also varies by county since there are some county assesments added in. In order for the state to make sure every business pays the sales tax, they are required to have a resale number from the California State Board of Equalization before they can sell. If you sell from tables in your front yard at a "garage sale" on a Saturday morning, the only difficulty you will encounter will have to do with local regulations aimed by cities to keep individuals from turning their property into a "permanent garage sale" held every Saturday of the year. I think vendors at train shows out here must show their resale license to the show's promoter before they can set up a table. In addition an investigator could show up at any public show at any time to inspect vendors for proper business licenses.

[Charlie B]

Yes, Russ, we too have the "tax collectors" for the shows and the flea markets. It doesn't mater that the "yard salers" have already paid the tax at least once when the item was bought, they just want their perceived piece of the pie. The permanent yard sale dealers have vendors licences here, it's just the little guy they want to harass.
Charlie

[Russ Bellinis]

Yes, Russ, we too have the "tax collectors" for the shows and the flea markets. It doesn't mater that the "yard salers" have already paid the tax at least once when the item was bought, they just want their perceived piece of the pie. The permanent yard sale dealers have vendors licences here, it's just the little guy they want to harass.
Charlie

I think all of government has a rule somewhere stating that any time any item changes hand for cash, the government should get their cut.