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P5se Camelback Wrote:Sarge ...
In the beginning there were dummy couplers. And God saw that while they were prototypical looking, but were dumb, and didn't operate.
Then some "brilliant" hobbiest came up with the X2F (all new, cool stuff back then started with an "X," like the Bell/North American X-15 experimental aircraft) and the X2F operated (sort of) but they were very large and very Ugly.
Then two brothers in Oregon (Initials "K" and "D") developed a coupler that although a little larger than the prototype in scale, they did in fact operate ... and quite nicely! They patented their coupler.
BiL, if I'm not mistaken, Kadees pre-dated the X2F - I've been using Kadees since my first HO scale trains in the '50s and have never used the X2F couplers. When it was presented as a "recommended standard" by the NMRA, it seemed to me, even as a child, to be a dumb choice. I didn't realise then, of course, that economics played a large role in that decision. Any that I get nowadays go into my waste basket, the one reserved for plastic for recycling.
Not all Kadees are metal, either, and I often use their plastic ones on the pilots of brass steamers - they're easy to modify (usually by cutting-off the shank and re-drilling to suit the particular installation) and stand-up well operationally.
Wayne
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Wayne,The X2F/NMRA coupler was design by the NMRA but,was never approved by the membership..
The X2F was the better coupler of its day and ended the "coupler of the month" couplers furnish by the manufacturers.
When properly mounted the X2F worked quite well and would be the "unoffical" standard coupler until the KD coupler push by Linn Westcott in the 60s..
Even today there is no NMRA approved coupler.
Larry
Engineman
Summerset Ry
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doctorwayne Wrote:... BiL, if I'm not mistaken, Kadees pre-dated the X2F - I've been using Kadees since my first HO scale trains in the '50s and have never used the X2F couplers. ...
Ah, good doctorwayne, you have reminded me that there was, indeed, an early, mechanical-not-magnetic version of the Kadee coupler back then that was activated by a "ramp" which pushed the then-almost-straight-and-vertical "glad hand" upward, releasing the knuckle! Boy! That was a while ago! [The big deal with the magnetics, then, was they eliminated the unprototypical "grade crossing"-looking ramp that had been necessary with both the X2Fs and the non-magnetic Kadees.) The dummies, while scale in appearance, left a number of English tons to be desired when it came to doing anything more than observing continuous running, the main reason for my absence from the hobby for so long ... well, that and the Army and then college!
doctorwayne Wrote:Not all Kadees are metal, either, and I often use their plastic ones on the pilots of brass steamers - they're easy to modify (usually by cutting-off the shank and re-drilling to suit the particular installation) and stand-up well operationally. ... Wayne
I was unaware of non-metal (presumably "engineering plastic") Kadee couplers. As you posit, they would be perfect for steam loco pilot use ... I'll have to look into them. Thanks!! 
biL
Lehigh Susquehanna & Western
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The X in X2f was for "eXperimental". It was developed by an NMRA committee but never approved by the membership.
It was released without royalty and being a single casting was very popular with manufacturers. But I've heard that very few of them matched the original specs.
The X2f came out while Kadee was still a mechanical coupler -- late 50s.
I remember buying Athearn coaches and dummy diesels that had cast metal dummy couplers (early 60s).
The Kadee uncoupler wasn't a ramp but a diamond variation that pushed the pins apart. There was a spur variation that only worked in one direction.
One additional criticism of the X2f is that the spring pushes sideways. This is a definite problem with truck-mounted couplers when the wheels have sharp flanges.
David
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The coupler that I like for steam pilots is the Kaddee #4. It has a squarish section at the back where a coil spring would be installed for centering, but it also has a very small hole in the shank just in front of the "centering chamber." I just cut off the square in the back as well as the little tang, and mount it in the pilot of steam engines with a 00-92 screw through the small hole. Unfortunately, I just tried to order some of them and Kaddee has discontinued them and the left over stock is sold out.
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I just checked Kadee's site and they still show the Number 4, with no mention of its discontinuance.
Wayne
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They may not have updated the site. Our club buys directly from Kaddee, one member fronts the purchases for everyone and then we pay him back. I think the last order was over $1000.00. He is sending in another order and the latest price list we received from them announced that the #4 was being discontinued. I asked him to see if they had any stock left that I could order, and they said that they were sold out.
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Russ, It's possible that the tooling still exists. I have no idea what the number would be, but they might possibly be enticed to do a small run for you guys if you are ordering that kind of quantity directly from them!
Ordering an item in volume has its advantages! It's worth a shot!
biL
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Russ Bellinis Wrote:They may not have updated the site. Our club buys directly from Kaddee, one member fronts the purchases for everyone and then we pay him back. I think the last order was over $1000.00. He is sending in another order and the latest price list we received from them announced that the #4 was being discontinued. I asked him to see if they had any stock left that I could order, and they said that they were sold out.
A $1000.00 worth of couplers to go thanks!!!!
I'll bet even that over the counter order raised a few eyebrows at KD. 
As for me, well following consultations with my local hobby shop owner, I am keeping the Mc Henry's that came on the Bachmann stuff and mounting KD's on anything else that requires them.
I have only had one or two couplers broken in handling accidents by my then 5 yo boy. No real problem there, once kids are shown how to safely handle rolling stock. I could just as easily have broken them myself in the same circumstances.
I well remember drooling over the KD ads in Model Railroader and their delayed magnetic action at school in the late 70's early 80's while cursing the horn hooks on the stuff at home. Dont get me started on those bloody ugly couplers that were on the Hornby stuff.  YUK
Mark
Fake It till you Make It, then Fake It some More
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P5se Camelback Wrote:Russ, It's possible that the tooling still exists. I have no idea what the number would be, but they might possibly be enticed to do a small run for you guys if you are ordering that kind of quantity directly from them!
Ordering an item in volume has its advantages! It's worth a shot!
I just got back from vacation so I didn't see this post until today. I don't know that anybody else in the club except me would use the #4's, and I don't need the sort of volume that would justify a production run. I think I still have enough #4's to outfit any steam engines that I haven't fitted couplers to yet.
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