Not so very green

[faraway]

Exact Rail' Garvey hoppers ( http://www.exactrail.com/evans-4780-covered-hopper-ggix ) are beautiful models but the intense green disturbs the overall impression of my layout.

They got a brush paint of a deluded light green with a touch of brown. Next are little brown spots with a tiny brush. A hard larger brush was used to do some vertical strikes over the still wet brown spots. Finally a black wash. I did only find a photo of a very old green ex Garvey's hopper. It has been used to estimate normal bleach and rust.

[Tyson Rayles]

Very nicely done!

[Ralph]

Very convincing. Great looking rusty spots!
Ralph

[faraway]

Something went wrong last night. I wanted to be on the save side and did the rust spots and black wash on one side of the cars only. The other side got the toned down green paint layer only.
When I posted the photo last night I noticed white/light gray stripes on the side.
This photo compares a car side with black wash (left) and without black wash (right). My black wash is made of "Higgins Black India" (bought in US), water and alcohol. What is the source of the white/light gray stripes on the left car?

[FCIN]

Reinhard;

My guess is that the alcohol/india ink wash reacted with the paint you used to tone down the green. I wouldn't be overly concerned about the off-white/gray looking areas on the side of the car, as it's quite common to see covered hoppers, especially those painted in colors other than white/gray; to have that look to them. I see covered hoppers all the time, that have been in service only a short time and look like that; often to the point where it's difficult to read the car data.

Most of my fleet of covered hoppers simply got a light spray of very thin light gray, to get a similar look on them. I'd just vary the amount of the spray (heavier toward the bottom/lighter toward the top) and the cars came out looking "typical" of what I see around grain elevators/feed mills/fertilizer dealers. At loading/unloading points, there is often a lot of dust from the commodity that fills the air and accumulates on the car, so the car on the left looks quite natural to me.

Whether or not you'll get the same effect on the other side of the car when applying the black wash - I don't know. Since the paint has had a longer setting time, it may not be effected. If you aren't happy with the look, the car on the right looks just fine without the wash. Has a nice toned down look. Just add a few rust spots and let it go.

[faraway]

Ed, a reaction with the layer of green paint is a good explanation. Using less alcohol might be helpful.
How do you mix alcohol and water? I did never find a perfect formula. Too much water and it stands in drops on gloss paint (nasty black spots) and too much alcohol and the paint is dissolved (may ruin fine print and lines). It looks like it depends also on the kind of paint. e.g. dull Tamiya is very sensitive to alcohol while Walthers 40' boxcars have a very glossy but robust surface and need a lot of alcohol or the water stays in drops on the surface.

[FCIN]

Ed, a reaction with the layer of green paint is a good explanation. Using less alcohol might be helpful.
How do you mix alcohol and water? I did never find a perfect formula. Too much water and it stands in drops on gloss paint (nasty black spots) and too much alcohol and the paint is dissolved (may ruin fine print and lines). It looks like it depends also on the kind of paint. e.g. dull Tamiya is very sensitive to alcohol while Walthers 40' boxcars have a very glossy but robust surface and need a lot of alcohol or the water stays in drops on the surface.

Lance Mindheim constantly mentions using a mixture of alcohol and india ink to "tone down" everything. I haven't had the nerve to try that on anything, as I often use 91% alcohol to strip paint off models and I'm scared that I'd ruin a perfectly good car/structure if I over did it. Maybe 70% alcohol wouldn't be quite as dangerous as it's already been watered down? But on the other hand, using a method like I mentioned, with a very thinned white, gray or even black paint might be the way to go?

Since my modeling era is the late 70's to early 80's, there weren't that many rust buckets running around and there were many new cars with colorful paint schemes on the rails. Thus, I'm happy with minimal weathering - a "good enough" slightly used effect. You can see the minimal weathering I applied to the two MDC covered hoppers in this photo - more or less the effect you got by accident:     If you've got some old cars to test with, you might try a couple of different methods. As I said, the car without the black wash looks just fine to me.

[faraway]

ED, I did just a test with 1:1 black wash on a Exact waffle car and it showed nasty drops. Increased alcohol to 5:3 and it worked fine. Than used the same black wash on the backside of the green hoppers (rust spots have been added too) and it did clearly dissolve the layer of green Tamiya paint it did last night. That is the course for the white/light gray strips.
My conclusion is that there is not ideal formula for black wash. You have to know the sensitivity and smoothness of the base paint.

That is my final green train

[FCIN]

Reinhard;

The hoppers sure look like they've been in service for a few years and they look just great to me! I'm going to have to experiment with the black wash on something to see what effects I get. I know that I had planned on giving any and all structures that I build for my layout a "black wash" so do want to see what mixture would work okay. Maybe the 70% alcohol and india ink mixture. I recall Lance mentioning that some times he brushes the wash on and other times he sprays it on, so that might make a difference.

I've got at least one covered hopper that I might try it out on, as I planned to repaint it anyway. So if it eats up the paint, no harm done.

Sure wish this thread had come up before I went rail fanning yesterday! Could have gotten you plenty of examples of well used covered hoppers!

[MasonJar]

The whitening effect can also be the reaction of putting an alcohol wash over DullCote. Sometimes the effect is good, but other times it ruins things. Luckily it can be reversed with another application of DullCote.

Unless the alcohol approaches full strength, it should not have any major effect on the paint job. Resist the temptation to continue work on the car until Otis dry just in case the paint has softened slightly.

Andrew

[Tom]

The whitening effect can also be the reaction of putting an alcohol wash over DullCote. Sometimes the effect is good, but other times it ruins things. Luckily it can be reversed with another application of DullCote.

Unless the alcohol approaches full strength, it should not have any major effect on the paint job. Resist the temptation to continue work on the car until Otis dry just in case the paint has softened slightly.

Andrew

I agree, the white is dullcoat/alcohol reaction. However, in my opinion, it looks really realistic. Kind of a happy accident I suppose. I see hoppes all the time with faded white covering them, sometimes bleached paint, sometimes from previous lading, sometimes from blowing residual off adjoining cars. I'd be happy that mine turned out like that!

[sailormatlac]

The whitening effect can also be the reaction of putting an alcohol wash over DullCote. Sometimes the effect is good, but other times it ruins things. Luckily it can be reversed with another application of DullCote.

Unless the alcohol approaches full strength, it should not have any major effect on the paint job. Resist the temptation to continue work on the car until Otis dry just in case the paint has softened slightly.

Dullcote/alcohol reaction is very variable in result. Sometimes, it looks perfect, sometimes not. It depends on how the dullcote layer was sprayed. Spraying an alcohol mixture also calls for different reaction patterns. Mike Rose was using it extensively as a weathering agent. I'm actually experimenting with oil paints and mineral spirit washes and find them easier to work with. You can alter them after they are applied and using with care Titanium white fade perfectly bright colors. When dry, I dullcote them and carry on with other effects.

Reinhard: I recently experimented a similar reaction between paint and alcohol and didn't used dullcote. I can't explain what happened exactly. For dilution purpose, I recommend using 70% alcohol. 90% is far too strong for this application and could affect the paint layers receiving the wash. All you want is alcohol property to break water surface tension. As FCIN said, 90% is better for stripping purposes. 70% alcohol is the modeller's best friend.

Matt