Current HO loco projects
#76
Where is this conversation going Lutz. Is your statement about Crampton locomotives and directed to the one the Camden and Amboy ran a long time ago. that was a 6-2-0. The Wikipedia link you posted tells a lot about them. What was the fear you speak of ?
frank
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!!
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#77
toptrain Wrote:Where is this conversation going Lutz. Is your statement about Crampton locomotives and directed to the one the Camden and Amboy ran a long time ago. that was a 6-2-0. The Wikipedia link you posted tells a lot about them. What was the fear you speak of ?
frank
Frank!

This is a direct reply to Tyson Rayles posting about top heavyness an the fear those locos or even could flip over in curves.
In the middle of the 19th century locomotive constructers were the opinion only a low center of gravity would made a locomotive run stable at higher speeds.
This must be seen in conclusion with the long boiler locomotive especially of British origin. These 2-2-2 had long overhangs front and aft causing vertical swaying too.

The text copied from the English Wikipedia describes how the efforts for a low center of gravity leds to teh Crampton loco:
"...
Meanwhile, the prevailing view was that the centre of gravity should be as low as possible, which limited the size of the driving wheels, and incidentally precluded the use of inside cylinders.

The initial locomotives were of 2-2-2 wheel arrangement to accommodate the extra length. However, with the outside cylinders, the engines were extremely unsteady, swaying from side to side. This led Stevenson to bring the rear wheels forward in the 4-2-0 formation, with the cylinders between the leading wheels. Such an engine was the "Great A" which took part in the Gauge Trials. This however, left the firebox behind the wheels and was therefore limited in size and weight. Moreover, the long rigid chassis made bends difficult to negotiate and damaged the track. The classical long-boiler locomotive, then, was powerful but slow. It was ideal for goods trains, one example surviving as the North Eastern Railways Class 1001.

The opposite point of view was taken by John Gray, who designed a number of engines for the London and Brighton Railway. His engines were the inspiration for David Joy in his design for the Jenny Lind locomotive, which compensated for the size of its boiler by greater efficiency and a pressure of some 120 psi.

The long boiler design, on the other hand, was taken to its extreme by the Crampton locomotive which utilised a larger driving wheel by placing it behind the firebox."


From the German Wikipedia:
"...
Die „Crampton“-Dampflokomotive hat nur eine einzige, weit hinter dem Kessel angeordnete Treibachse mit großen Rädern von bis zu 2,15 m Durchmesser (in Europa). Sie wurde 1843 von Thomas Russell Crampton erdacht. Er verfolgte die Absicht, die Nachteile der von Stephenson entwickelten „Long Boiler“ (Langkessel) zu vermeiden. Diese ragten vorne und hinten über die Achsen hinaus und neigten damit bei hohen Geschwindigkeiten zum Nicken und Entgleisen. Bei der Bauart „Crampton“ ließen sich trotz tiefer Lage des Langkessels große Treibräder für hohe Geschwindigkeiten verwenden. Die besonders tiefe Kessellage wurde damals irrtümlicherweise als wichtig für eine hohe Laufruhe und Laufgüte der Maschine angesehen. Diese Auffassung wurde insbesondere durch die Konstruktionen Karl Gölsdorfs mit besonders hoher Kessellage widerlegt. Dass die Crampton-Lokomotiven tatsächlich wesentlich laufruhiger waren als die „Long Boiler“-Maschinen, lag an der insgesamt besseren Gewichtsverteilung und den nahe dem Lokschwerpunkt angebrachten Zylinder, was dazu beitrug, dass die irrige Meinung bezüglich der tiefen Kessellage sehr zählebig war. Lokomotiven der Bauart Crampton erreichten die für damalige Zeiten sensationelle Geschwindigkeit von 120 km/h.
..."

Here it is about the same, but also remarked, that it was an error the low center of gravity is the main cause for an stable running.
Actually it were the weight of the loco was better spread over all axles and the cylinders were mounted nearer to the center of gravity.
Lateron Gölsdorf build locos with an very high center of gravity which were running stable also at high speeds.

Remember the 4-4-0 American Type loco in the US since 1836. With its 3-point suspension the classic American 4-4-0 is one of the best loco constructions ever made.

Lutz
Cheers Lutz
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#78
Hi there, hope Y'all don't mind if I post in my own thread. :mrgreen:

Here are a couple pics of one of my current HO projects.It is by definition a SD40-3_CATT.By that I mean it is rebuilt to meet all current anf most future emmision standards for diesel locomotives.Oh and it has a 3,000 hp Catt diesel for power.(if I decide to put sound in it)

[Image: SD40-3_CATT_2.jpg]

[Image: SD40-3_CATT_1.jpg]
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
"The Ol Furrball"

"I'm old school,I still believe in respect"
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#79
[quote="Catt"Oh and it has a 3,000 hp Catt diesel for power.(if I decide to put sound in it)

[/quote]

So it'll have a recording of you going "Brrrmm brrrmm"?
David
Moderato ma non troppo
Perth & Exeter Railway Company
Esquesing & Chinguacousy Radial Railway
In model railroading, there are between six and two hundred ways of performing a given task.
Most modellers can get two of them to work.
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#80
Quote:So it'll have a recording of you going "Brrrmm brrrmm"?
Or maybe, 'Purrrr purrr'. Icon_lol
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#81
Icon_twisted Icon_twisted Wink So !, BR60103, switcher1 , Could the speed of that loco be measured in "Brrrmm / Purrrr"?? Wink

A 3,000 hp Catt diesel prime mover....It is by definition a SD40-3_CATT ....... Thumbsup Thumbsup Thumbsup
Great example of the creativity that can be found in this hobby. This goes right along with the "idea" of a shipyard building, and maintaining, steam locos for its subsidiary railroads.
There is a logical reason for what it is ! Thumbsup Thumbsup Cheers
We always learn far more from our own mistakes, than we will ever learn from another's advice.
The greatest place to live life, is on the sharp leading edge of a learning curve.
Lead me not into temptation.....I can find it myself!
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#82
Actually I think I will just record this boy for that "authentic " CATT sound. Eek This is Jamie,that's his brother Smokie on the left.They are both very authentic sounding CATTS. :mrgreen:

[Image: theboys3.jpg]
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
"The Ol Furrball"

"I'm old school,I still believe in respect"
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#83
About two more hours worth of fun and this one will be ready for the Pink.

[Image: Catt-twins_2.jpg]

Little paint touch up and some decals and this one will be done (finally)

[Image: Catt-twins_3.jpg]
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
"The Ol Furrball"

"I'm old school,I still believe in respect"
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#84
I am thinking about another American type camelback. The LVRR one came out Ok so I think I'll try again. This time a CRR of NJ 4-4-0c D4 class.
* . I am looking at one of a small group built By Baldwin as standard 4-4-0's in June 1882. Then rebuilt at Ashley and in June of 1898 immerged as 4-4-0 camelback still with the number 172. One year latter it would be renumbered 545. This is the one I want to model for I like the different cab and the locos use of the old style slide for the piston rod to main connection. This makes the drive I will use look accurate for the model. I have a good engineer side photo of #567. One that I can use for measurements if no elevation drawing is found. #567 is a 1903 number. In 1899 it was #545, and previous to that #172. As rebuilt at Ashley it may have become a D4 class. I don't know when this form of classification began. It went into Ashley a Baldwin 4-4-0 CRRofNJ class 8 47/34 and came out a 8 54/40c. I do not understand that old type of classification system. I found a drawing for a D9s class for engines 558 and 559. Does anybody have any info on the D4 class 4-4-0c. I have a angled photo of #549. this number is a 1899 number. It would become 564 in 1903. It shows me the angled front fireman's side. It looks brand new so I think it is as delivered from Ashley shops in Dec of 1897 after its RO rebuild. This is the same rebuild the 567 also received 6 months later completed in June of 1898 at the Ashley Shops.

The photo of 549 is from the Jersey Central Story, on page 20.
The photo for 567 is from Locomotives 1 to 999 of the Jersey central, on page 11.
Another photo of 567 from north east railfan.net
Here is the link to it.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj567s.jpg">http://www.northeast.railfan.net/images/cnj567s.jpg</a><!-- m -->
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!!
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#85
Done

[Image: GVR_6789.jpg]
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
"The Ol Furrball"

"I'm old school,I still believe in respect"
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#86
This is a drawing of my current locomotive building project.
* it is a HO scale CRRofNJ 4-4-0c camelback, class D4.

Link: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/30431536@N03/14443377764/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/30431536@N03/14443377764/</a><!-- m -->

frank
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!!
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#87
My current loco project is another 4-4-0c camelback. I am hoping to do CRRofNJ locomotive 567 D4 class. I cant do it without some measurements. The only one I have is for the 69" drivers. Here is a drawing I have made on this locomotive. It is not a scale drawing just a basic view. All measurements I need are shown with a question mark symbol and a letter. The info in the upper left corner shows the letter and what it is. Frank

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/30431536@N03/14432591346/">https://www.flickr.com/photos/30431536@N03/14432591346/</a><!-- m -->
" It's a Heck of a Day " !!!!
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#88
Another in process diesel from me.This time a GE U28-B that I jokingly refer as my GE tunnel motor.So far it is a dummy unit but plans are in the making to power it, light it and DCC it.

[Image: GE-U28-T_1.jpg]

[Image: GE-U28-T_2.jpg]

If anyone is curious it is another Athearn blue box loco.
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
"The Ol Furrball"

"I'm old school,I still believe in respect"
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#89
No longer a dummy unit and no more dash 8 type tank.Progress is slow but sort of steady . Nope

[Image: AC-5689a.jpg]

[Image: AC-5689b.jpg]

[Image: AC-5689c.jpg]
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
"The Ol Furrball"

"I'm old school,I still believe in respect"
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#90
I originally bought this unit for the powered chassis to put under the AC unit.Plans changed when I discovered that the unit is so old that the frame does not have cut outs for flywheels.Oh well it does run and will do till I can get another drive for it.Then I will find some one with a mill and have the frame relieved for flywheel clearance.

[Image: N&W-1903A.jpg]

The radiator grilles are from a Bachmann U-36B.MTS management thought it wise to increase cooling capacity since the loco is getting a 3,000 HP CATT diesel in the rebuild along with all modern electronics as is the one above this post.
Johnathan (Catt) Edwards
"The Ol Furrball"

"I'm old school,I still believe in respect"
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