MMA Train explodes at Lac-Mégantic
#16
In the US you are required at minimum to apply 2 hand brakes for 1-10 cars and another one for every 10 after that if I remember the rule correctly, and then it adds must apply sufficient number of hand brakes, which would mean more on a grade. Operating rules of the railroad vary, but this was the federal minimum.
Charlie
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#17
The horrendous derailment at Lac-Megantic Quebec has raised concerns about rail transportation safety everywhere,particularly with the increase of trains carrying hazardous materials.Here in my hometown,both the Canadian National and the Canadian Pacific run mainline trains through heavily populated neighborhoods---God forbid,but a similar accident here would be catastrophic---here's a few pictures showing CP's Kinnear Yard trackage

[Image: 3fd52e80-77b8-4336-b3bb-8ed8a18788e2.jpg]

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#18
It looks horrible... I just got back from a canoe trip last night and am catching up on this news.

There are some pics here that show the severity of the damage.

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Rob
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#19
Charlie, it has been said in media that about 10 handbrakes should have been put on for this kind of train. The transportation security board said it would be among the first thing they will verify when access to the wreck will be possible.

Since columnists started to write about a lot of things they don't know the detail, lots of crazy rumours are going on here. It took me a few minutes to straight thing back in shape at job with coworkers. They imagined plots and unbelievable things. Reading these papers makes me wonder if they make more collateral damage than the disaster itself.

At least, the BST (TSB) has started the inquiry. More facts are going to be uncovered after all this speculation during the weekend.

Matt
Proudly modelling Quebec Railway Light & Power Company since 1997.

Hedley-Junction Club Layout: http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com/

Erie 149th Street Harlem Station http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com/
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#20
Yeah , Matt , with social media being what it is these days , stories , half truths , B.S . , etc. travels fast . It will take a while to sort it out .

T
To err is human, to blame it on somebody else shows management potential.
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#21
We have too many experts that work for the news as "reporters" If they would take time to get the facts, as they should, there would not be the problems. They are so quick to get their version of the story out that the facts are left far behind, then when the facts are established it isn't the story of the day, it is last out, and if Justin Biber (however he spells his name) had a hot chilli sandwich, it doesn't make the news at all.

Having you guys watching first hand will get us the truth somehow. Thanks guys. Keep on it. It's your story.
Charlie
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#22
Here's an interesting theory in the beginning of this latest story.
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willie
willie
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#23
It doesn't matter why the air leaked off and the train ran away. The question that needs to be solved is why there were not enough hand brakes applied to hold the train even without air. The problem with relying on a locomotive to supply air is what could have happened here, and the air became "bottled" when the engine shut down, and the pressures equalized and the brakes all released. If the cars were placed in "emergency" (all the air removed from the train line and the line left open) then the reservoirs in every car would have to bleed off, which is highly unlikely in that short a period. There are two ways to move cars by kicking. one is to bleed all the air out of the car, and the other is to Bottle it.
To bottle air you pump the trainline up and release the brakes, then you close BOTH anglecocks on the car, which keeps the brakes released. If there are no leaks in the trainline on the car it will move until you release the air from the train line. The common pressure in a freight train trainline is 90 PSI. to apply the brakes the engineer applies a reduction to the train line and this applies the brakes. when he releases the brake, the trainline returns to 90 PSI and the brakes start to release. There is a feed line to the main reservoir on each car and the trainline pressure replenishes the air lost from the reservoir when the brakes were applied. This takes a short period of time. When an emergency application occurs all of the air from the trainline is exhausted and the brakes apply at their fullest force.
You have to be very careful when applying brakes especially on a grade. Unlike a truck where you can pump the brakes (a certain amount) (spring loaded brake) You will run the reservoirs out of air by doing this on a train, and then you have a run away if your locomotives can't handle it with the dynamic brakes. You make a reduction and live with it, and only release when it is safe. With dynamic braking today the air brakes are secondary though the airbrake is still the primary braking system. The dynamic brakes are why you see helpers on trains going downgrade.
I spent 10 years listening to a gentleman that became a close friend that was one of the top air brake men with the FRA. We discussed many things about air brakes and I asked many questions about rules I deemed obsolete. The single car brake test that is required today was one of the best rule changes I saw enacted while I was with the railroad.
I know there are other engineers on this board that can help clarify what I am saying, but to put if bluntly, if the train crew did their job correctly, there is something going on here that needs attention.
It is a true crime that so many people have lost their lives.
These are all my own opinion, take them for what they are worth.
Charlie
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#24
True to form , any of the "big shots " being questioned are denying responsibility . Not surprising ...worried about their own butt and nobody else . Official toll now 13 with more to come .

T
To err is human, to blame it on somebody else shows management potential.
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#25
teejay Wrote:True to form , any of the "big shots " being questioned are denying responsibility . Not surprising ...worried about their own butt and nobody else . Official toll now 13 with more to come .

T

Well said. Ed Burkhardt dug his own grave in Quebec with both hands with his uncareful statements in the recent days. He remembers me a motto my old boss is always saying when a Mr. Know-it-all walks in our offices and want to cut cost on quality, building material, etc.: "cheaper always cost more in the end". So far, it always proved true. Who knows what Rail World president will say tomorrow when he will visit the place... Whatever he is in real life, he totally "bley it out" (to reuse his own wording) in the media. He missed the train to prove he was a fine railroader and a responsible businessman.

When the bus ran beside the yard in Limoilou today, after my work day, I felt quite strange while looking at the same tank cars full of kerosene waiting in Quebec City harbour.

That said, the provincial police released 52 pictures shot from the wreck site, now considered as a criminal investigation site. Honestly, it left me speechless for a while... After seeing this, I understood what my railfan friend from Megantic tried to tell me when he returned from there last Saturday. Website is in French, but I think those pictures talk by themselves about the sheer destruction.

http://www.journaldemontreal.com/2013/07...des-photos

As already stated by many members here, it's hard, at this point to sort out what happened exactly. However, TSB presented a timeline of events prior the accident. It seems like an addition of bad luck, mishaps and negligence at some level. There's so much fishy and messy things around the accident to check: brake, engine fire, how and where the train was parked for the night, security protocol when hauling hazmat, crew munmbers, name it, it's there. It will probably take years before final recommendations by TSB are made public.

On the "good side", there have been reports that the engineer rested in a downtown hotel, was awaken by the explosions and removed about 9 tank cars remaining on rail at the height of the fire with a trackmobile. His taxi driver told a newspaper he was really anxious about the engine pumping oil and smoking while en route to the hotel. But this last bit of info is taken from a tabloid and I wouldn't recommend to speculate from their unofficial claims they like to make. Too much people not knowing their stuff, myself included, talk about this event.

Matt
Proudly modelling Quebec Railway Light & Power Company since 1997.

Hedley-Junction Club Layout: http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com/

Erie 149th Street Harlem Station http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com/
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#26
Good news! International rail traffic should restart in December between Quebec and Maine. Track has been restored at Megantic in the last days and sale of MMA should be concluded next week. Curious to see who will now operate the line, International of Maine didn't say its last words yet.

Matt
Proudly modelling Quebec Railway Light & Power Company since 1997.

Hedley-Junction Club Layout: http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com/

Erie 149th Street Harlem Station http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com/
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