Posing A Question About THe Hobby
#76
"It's not easy padding these shows out to thirty minutes." Monty Python's Flying Circus.

Tony.
Reply
#77
Selector Wrote:
MountainMan Wrote:...

You might also want to actually read the initial entry that started this discussion, the specific subject of which is whether or not a contractor-built layout should be a feature layout in a magazine allegedly aimed at hobbyists.

Once again, you limit the ability of members here to participate. You have used the term "hobbyists" as your generalized ideal that includes only people who build things, and excludes all those who must hire someone else to either assemble RTR items or actually construct a functional layout for them.

Your apparent definition of "hobbyists" seems to be exclusive to those who merely want to play trains, and getting them to the point of playing is irrelevant. It's not for you, that is clear, but to make what I feel are false distinctions, as I pointed out in my last post to you, is merely divisive. I have seen it before, and had hoped not to see it here.

Never answer the question - just attack the poster? Yeah...I've seen that a lot, and "had hoped not to see it here", either. Nope
Reply
#78
Selector Wrote:Russ, the last words in the opening statement were, "...maybe I'm too much of a purist." The inference, whether intended or not, is clear...unless one builds (an arbitrary, subjective, and as yet undefined) percentage of all that comes together to yield a functioning layout, the efforts of anyone not complying will fall short. They do not possess the "requisite" extent of "purity". It smacks purely of elitism. Elitism by definition means a setting apart. Setting apart, by definition, is exclusive. QED.

Words are important, and should not be bandied about carelessly when that is all any of us has by which to judge their intent and meaning. Those of us who have commented, as the invitation requested, have stated that we don't find fault with the article necessarily, pointing out that just because something is availed by paying someone else to provide it does not, and ought not, preclude anyone from participation in a hobby with many guises. Model Railroader Magazine presented yet another commercially produced layout. As far as I can tell, the heavy majority of all their layout articles feature commercial products, some more, some less. I won't dispute that it will not be more than interesting to the majority of readers, but people should still have an appreciation for what these outfits can do. Their product, after all, is made by mere mortals like the two of us. Whether a person gets paid to erect a layout or does it for their own pleasure or satisfaction is no different between the two "camps", really...none of us has a gun to our heads. Similarly, last I checked, there is no guideline from a source I would recognize as my judge saying that a person must build an entire layout, including rolling objects, from raw materials. There are gradients in several factors that come together in any human undertaking.

I have not set out to be contrary or obstructive, but the tenor of these types of judgemental, opinionated, threads is invariably divisive. It seems to get people to walk to either side of a line. The line, as I suggested a minute ago, is entirely arbitrary to my way of thinking. The line says those who have paid to have a layout should not be featured in a hobby magazine. Nonsense! Otherwise, who would pay for the subscriptions that would necessarily climb to $750 per year if nothing commercially produced could be featured? That would include advertising.

Once again, I reluctantly get dragged into these, truly knowing better, but still doing it of my own free will...which this hobby offers all of us as meets our needs and interests.

It was said a few posts back...if that type of article offends any one reader, they can take it up with the Corporation, send a letter, or just decline to read it. But the author of an opening remark about discomfort, and then seeking feedback, should be able to withstand contrary opinion, including observations that are relevant to the nature of the discussion. In that respect, I don't see how it has gone off topic at all.

Respectfully,

-Crandell

Words are also the means by which we attempt to express ourselves, without prior expectation of promise of absolute precision in the eye of the beholder.

"Reluctantly dragged into these"? No -Crandell - you came willingly.
Reply
#79
Quote:Is there any socially redeeming value left in this thread?
Russ, I guess that depends on what we consider "social", and what we define as "redeeming".
If, a response has been reasonably thought out, and the responder is willing to "take" as well as "give", then I would see that as "social".
If, in any way, a specific topic can be defined by consensus, as beneficial, or as detrimental, then I would see that as having "value".
If, in any way, that value, can lead to improving conditions within our "community", I would then see it as redeeming.

My participation in this hobby, has always been as a model maker. My expectations of the authors, and publishers, of "related hobby magazines", has been to educate hobbyists about the subject of their hobby, and the means by which they can improve their skills in that hobby.
Even in an article about a commercially built layout, there can be inspiration. Yes, that level of detail can be achieved, or possibly,I never thought of building that, in that manner.
The defense that subscription costs would soar if articles of this nature were to be disallowed, can be viewed as a surrender to the "don't build it, buy it" mentality, and I do not mean that that is wrong for the hobby, but I do feel that it is wrong for me. I have already stated that I dropped my subscription, because I was no longer learning from the content. I see MR as a never-ending commercial, and miss the days when there was challenging, and informative content.
Perhaps, in this day and age, the "magazine" has no choice but to become a cover to cover advertisement. There are now, sources like this forum to provide the education, and skill improvement, that is disappearing from hard print.
Perhaps, in these provisions, the fact that forums like this exist, and the exchange of information and opinion can be ongoing, there is social redemption.
As long as we can attack the topic, and remain responsible enough to not attack each other, there can be change for the better. There can be education, and skill improvement, and inspiration.
It is when I see what others have achieved, that I recognize my own mistakes. Without that recognition, I would not learn. When the day comes that I stop learning, I stop living.
We always learn far more from our own mistakes, than we will ever learn from another's advice.
The greatest place to live life, is on the sharp leading edge of a learning curve.
Lead me not into temptation.....I can find it myself!
Reply
#80
lightbender Wrote:"It's not easy padding these shows out to thirty minutes." Monty Python's Flying Circus.

http://www.mindspring.com/~mfpatton/sketch.htm

Grin,
Stein
Reply
#81
I lost count...what was the final tally for or against the whole thing?

No answer yet from the editor or MR, BTW. If he chooses to answer it in the next issue, that won't be out for a while.
Reply
#82
I've always liked that sketch Stein. 357

Ralph
Reply
#83
Ralph Wrote:I've always liked that sketch Stein. 357

No you didn't...that'll be a pound.


Tony.
Reply
#84
LOL! Goldth
Reply
#85
Popcornbeer
Reply
#86
Interesting little blurb in the news this AM - as the economy gets worse, people are becoming more obsessed with critiquing the grammar and spelling of others. Experts seem to think people do this is an attempt to re-establish some form of control in their lives. Thumbsup

Pass the popcorn.
Reply
#87
MountainMan Wrote:Interesting little blurb in the news this AM - as the economy gets worse, people are becoming more obsessed with critiquing the grammar and spelling of others. Experts seem to think people do this is an attempt to re-establish some form of control in their lives. Thumbsup

Pass the popcorn.

Ante meridiam is correctly abbreviated with periods: A.M.

I think you meant "in" rather than "is".

:ugeek:
Reply
#88
Squidbait Wrote:
MountainMan Wrote:Interesting little blurb in the news this AM - as the economy gets worse, people are becoming more obsessed with critiquing the grammar and spelling of others. Experts seem to think people do this is an attempt to re-establish some form of control in their lives. Thumbsup

Pass the popcorn.

Ante meridiam is correctly abbreviated with periods: A.M.

I think you meant "in" rather than "is".

:ugeek:

I rest my case. Cheers
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)