New Plan

[scubadude]

Made some good progress on the southeast peninsula today...replaced the mock up with permanent pink stuff and risers. Ready for roadbed.

Next up...continue to move westward and lay road bed into Bodden Yard, then continue to the southwest return loop back around to the hidden return. Hope to have roadbed completed next week. Shouldn't take too long, no risers or roadbed in Bodden Yard.

The bridge is an old Atlas kit from the 60s I picked up along the way in pieces from a $1 box at a train show ...needs a lot of tlc, I always thought it had potential...we'll see...

I'll try to start taking better pics,than i get with my iPad.

Feliz Nuevo Ano, Y'all..

[scubadude]

As I wait for the final skim coat of joint compound to dry, I began imagineering what to do with the Mountain Lumber and Mills Bros Lumber Wholesale kits on the T & A...

The era is early 60s but the complex was probably built in the late 40s early 50s , located anywhere there's timber production, I had eastern TN western NC foothills in mind.

My questions to you all are
How might this sawmill operate? It will have a two track siding .
Would local logging trucks bring logs to offload into the log pond to be brought up onto the conveyor for milling?
How would the logs be loaded into the pond?
Is a log pond necessary?
Would finished lumber be shipped out by rail?
Or would logs arrive by rail and ship by truck?

Any insight is appreciated. I Googled sawmills but didn't come across good photos showing an entire operation...

[doctorwayne]

I can't comment too much on logging operations in that part of your country, but in Northern Ontario, the log ponds were the last step in getting the logs to the mill. Cutters worked the woods, mostly in the winter, felling trees and skidding them to the nearest lake or river, where they were piled on the ice. In the spring, when the ice thawed, the logs would be driven via water to the mill - wherever possible, natural currents did most of the work. I'd guess that trucked-in logs would simply be dumped, possibly in a shallow pit to keep them under control, then skidded to a storage yard or moved with a crawler-type crane, where they'd be piled until needed.
By the '60s, most of the procedure was mechanised, and often the fellers would work a tree harvester rather than a chain saw. That meant, of course, that not too many fellers were required, as those huge machines did the work of many men.
Since you're building a model railroad, you could use a little modeller's licence and bring the logs in on rail cars - not the dramatic west-coast logging with one giant log per car, but perhaps some flatcars with semi-permanent stakes. A small diesel, such as Bachmann's 44 Tonner or the little four-wheel switcher offered by MDC/Horizon would be sufficient. Trucks would be another option - a lot of the roads in Northern Ontario were originally logging roads, and as the industry mechanised, road construction boomed.

I visited a sawmill operation in the early '60s with my uncle, who had worked in the bush when he was younger. He knew the mill owner, so while they gabbed, I took a few photos, although I can't tell you too much about what they represent.

This is the log pond - not especially photogenic, and I imagine the whole area around it would be a mess when it rained, as much of it was bare dirt.




Another view of the pond, with the bottom of the conveyor to the mill just barely visible at right:




Part of the storage area, with stacks of both rough-sawn lumber and semi-processed logs:



I'm not really sure what this is....



.....but this may be the other side of it. I didn't see any type of locomotive around, but they must have had one. You can see workers loading planks on these buggies - they may be going to storage or perhaps to a planing mill (or this may be the dressed boards leaving the planing mill):



Another outbuilding:




Here's the slash burner, water tower, and the main mill building, along with some railroad-related debris:



The mill itself was steam-powered, with the saws belt-driven. I wish I had asked more questions, but it was difficult to get a word in edgewise with the two old-timers yakkin'.



Other than those lumber buggies, this water car was the only rolling stock I saw. It's for firefighting:




Wayne

[scubadude]

Thanks for your reply Wayne, I was hoping you we're going to chime in at some point. Logging and sawmills are a fascinating industry with such an interesting and rich history. No wonder there is a dedicated forum on BB which proved to be helpful.

Based on space, here' s how I intend to model the sawmill scene....the mill will receive logs in two ways - via logging trucks and via floating logs from the river. Wayne' pic showed cranes at the log pond to offload logs into the pond for storage. They will then be raised onto the conveyor and into the mill for processing. Finished lumber will then be stacked and stored for delivery via rail from the mill down to Bodden Yard for classification. Not many sawmills were being served by rail into the 70s, trucks dominated by then.

This scene has a lot of modeling potential - log drivers on the river and log pond, crane equip for unloading logs into the pond, stacks of finished lumber, storage outbuildings, and the scene that gets my chili hot....log boons!

Suggestions on how this industry should operate are welcomed....

[sailormatlac]

Scubadude,

Very interesting concept, built at a believeable scale.

Your theme remembered me about Thurso and Nation Valley Railway, a logging railway that existed until 1986 in Quebec, near Ottawa, Canada. I think it could be of interest to you because it was quite active during the time frame you want to model. With Wayne's exhaustive answer, I think it should be helpful. The road was dielized. Pictures being quite modern, they are a good source for scenery information about vegetation, trackage, etc.

http://www.railways.incanada.net/thurso/tnvrmenu.htm

Matt

[scubadude]

Thanks for the link, Matt. I have been reading thru it and see some great shots that support my intent on running the lumber off the mountain and down to Bodden Yard using 44 and 70' Tonner diesels. I read about a rail line in Calif that picked up finished loads of lumber from several small once-thriving mills along a 30 mile route . I like that idea to support my plans..my mill will be one of several in the region which loads finished lumber on a regularly scheduled pick up from the small company that leases track rights.. Believable scenario???.

The longer I read about logging and sawmills, the bigger this spur gets......

[sailormatlac]

Thanks for the link, Matt. I have been reading thru it and see some great shots that support my intent on running the lumber off the mountain and down to Bodden Yard using 44 and 70' Tonner diesels. I read about a rail line in Calif that picked up finished loads of lumber from several small once-thriving mills along a 30 mile route . I like that idea to support my plans..my mill will be one of several in the region which loads finished lumber on a regularly scheduled pick up from the small company that leases track rights.. Believable scenario???.

The longer I read about logging and sawmills, the bigger this spur gets......

I'm happy to see your interest is growing stronger and stronger. The river/rail idea is a nice touch.

I'm not that much knowledgeable about sawmill operation, though I once wanted to do one and did some superficial research. The idea of picking up cars at several mills is interesting. I like the idea of a train growing longer as it travel it's subdivision. It's also a good opportunity to have an interchange with another carrier out of the layout to simulate in and out from the oustide world.

In my area, up to the fifties, there was once many sawmills on the main line that were rail-served (about four). A few of them were specialized in a kind of finished products (broom stick, dimensional lumber, plank/siding, shingle). A few hundred feet from my home, there used to be a big mill complex. Most wood was floated to the mill into a large pond. There, some where sawn into lumber, but a few weren't and were directly loaded on rail as pulpwood or other use.

Sawdust and woodchip are also a byproduct that can be hauled over your road and they were usual freight in yoru time frame. I think you've got plenty of options to choose from and lots of different products to haul. If you got 2 sidings as you said, one could be for finish lumber products, the other to move out woodchip and other by products. In the early post of my Hedley-Junction thread, there's some infos about such woodchip loading facilities in the 60s in New Brunswich. I feel it could looks at home in your concept.

Matt

[scubadude]

Here's an updated track plan...I didn't get a whole lot of feedback on the original posting, this updated version shows the EB and WB hidden interchange/staging. The intent is to have a place for the EB and WB thru freights to go and return from later. I did not intend to give so much space to a single sawmill, but the more I researched how they operated the bigger it got, but I think it will look cool when it's done...

So far my experience with trackplanning software has helped, but for me touching, feeling and moving around the track is better. The plan on paper translated pretty well to the benchwork, but I underestimated some clearances for scenery and buildings, etc so I will have to make some adjustments come scenery time. So just because if fits nicely on paper might mean your planned mountain will be more like a mole hill...

If y'all see anything I need to change, don't be bashful...at this stage I have all risers and foam roadbed down with track loosely in place. I seem to spend a lot of time just staring at it and imagining all the movements and can't stare anymore, so now you can stare..... unhock:

Next up: laying track and aligning and wiring those %^&*$#% tortoise switch machines...

[faraway]

Richard, there is a lot of action and a long way to run trains. I wonder if you can sort and drill at Bodden yard without fouling the main track? But may be it is not your intention to use Bodden yard to sort cars and built trains but it is a more static staging yard?

[scubadude]

Hi Reinhard, thanks for taking a moment away from your busy workbench.....the whole design of the Texas & Atlantic RY is based on fictional Bodden Yard. I love freight yards. So I will be sorting trains and making all the movements a small full service facility can offer, on a n-scaled down version of course. That said the drill track can never be long enough, but by working both ends of the yard to assemble, I should be able to hook up 15+ cars without fouling the main. I actually have about 30 inches at either end of the drill track plus 5 feet in between...

[faraway]

.... I should be able to hook up 15+ cars without fouling the main....

15+ cars.... a dream for me

...... and wiring those %^&*$#% tortoise switch machines...

Richard, I replaced my old switch machines a few month ago with tortoise switch machines. I prepared them with 5 pole luster connectors while comfortable sitting at my desk. The connector is mounted with double side sticky tape and held with five wires too. That reduced the time to work with wiring overhead dramatic. Similar adapters are commercially available in the US but they are expensive and would take a long time to get over the great pond. This is a quick and simple solution for me.
I do also mount the tortoise switch machines with double side sticky tape first. It is at least good enough for a 30 minutes test drive. The mounting screws are added when the tortoise switch machines are correct aligned.

[Tyson Rayles]

I like the revised track plan!

[scubadude]

Thanks for the tip Reinhard. Luckily for me I have a good friend who lives for these wiring projects, so I am going to turn him loose....I orig in ally had planned to manually throw turnouts, but he talked me into the machines, so all success and failure to "switch" will be on him!

On t he test bench, the challenge for me will be alignment and stability. On a couple of turnouts, I need to go thru 6" of foam. I installed 1/4 diameter plastic straw the give the rod a sleeve to ride thru. I also replaced the .025 wire with heavier .039. The problem so far has been able to secure the turnout to the roadbed without any movement when the turnout is activated. I've got track nails and a very small bit of glue, but it still wants to wiggle slightly when the throw bar moves....any suggestions?

Mike, I think I have the plan where it needs to be. Seems like a lot of features I didn't care about at one time are now getting important...such as hidden staging/interchange track among other things....

[faraway]

.... but it still wants to wiggle slightly when the throw bar moves....any suggestions?....

I have no foam but isn't that a temporary problem only? The switch will be rock solid when the ballast and white glue is applied and secures the switch like set in concrete. In the meantime "some" ballast spots and glue at the switches might be a solution. Nails and screws (even in glue nests) sound no good in foam to me for a test phase longer than an hour.

[scubadude]

The foam adds a certain degree of instability, the more foam the more dodgy. Reinhard you are right once the turnout is glued and lightly ballasted it should be solid. I just would feel a little more confident if it was rock solid before I make it more permanent. Oh we'll, I need to take a leap of faith and just do it! I will just make sure I get a little cold "confidence" from the fridge first....

Meanwhile, I've been playing around a mock up (held together with spit and toothpicks) of the diesel servicing facility at Bodden Yard...the scene will be a bash of several kits I have collected over the years.

Here is the engine shop with fuel, water and sanding platform on two tracks leading in from the yard...trying to get a feel for space that the computer track plan can't give...the yellow walkway will be elevated between the concrete pads. The double tower sanding tanks may be a bit overkill, but do look dramatic and gives a sense of vertical on an otherwise flat area.