Sheesh I've got some catching up to do! This work computer is fast, but the dadgum dial-up leaves me with alot of little red x's. I will read it over when I get home tonight or tomorrow.
BTW, Loren, I have the sketching stuff with me, but making the time for that with family & housing concerns has been tricky lately. Managed to get a little more done on the gate tower, but that's about it. Seems as if you are in capable hands, however.
Galen
I may not be a rivet counter, but I sure do like rivets!
You bet I am capable hands Galen.
Here is the final version. I will start building tomorrow My wife let me have another foot and a half width so I moved the island over and brought the left side down the full 20 ft, giving me two + ft to get into the pit area. Not sure what I will put there yet. What else would go with a stock yard?
Stein. your explanations and track plan really helped. I took the yard and loop ideas from you, thanks !
Andrew, your idea of switching the peninsulas was just what the plan needed
Josh, I even borrowed a couple of your ideas, thank you for your help.
Galen, I hope you didn't get to far on the other plan, but I am really happy with this plan. This plan seems perfect for a solo operator walking along with the train. Thank you for your help, come on over and operate whenever you can
Loren
I got my first train when I was three,
put a hundred thousand miles on my knees.
I like it Loren. The meeting I had scheduled for April 4 has been put back to April 11, so the pics of the Bro-Pack meat packing house will be taken on the 11th instead of the 4th.
Quote:Galen, I hope you didn't get to far on the other plan, but I am really happy with this plan. This plan seems perfect for a solo operator walking along with the train. Thank you for your help, come on over and operate whenever you can
I'll be glad to be part of that 1% when they layout is not a solo operation! PLUS, it seems like you'll need a few more structures...I'd be happy to help in that way as well. And although pencil had barely set lead to paper, I am pleased to have contributed to your planning process here in this thread.
Now...If I could add a couple refinements to the plan, I'd suggest making it a bit more curvy. If at all possible on the peninsula and the short wall, keep the main line from running parallel to the edge of the layout. On the shorter wall this is no problem, just swing the curve closer to the wall and let the yard/switching come towards the edge as it reaches the end. You'd need to move the icing platforms to the other side (aisle side) of the tracks, but hey, that's a nice wrinkle in the switching scheme! OR, put a kink in it in the middle somewhere. See Steve's 'narrow packages' thread.
On the peninsula this may be tricky since space is tight, but not impossible. An alternative may be to make the main line down the peninsula and around the blob descend alongside a retaining wall (concrete or stone for the industrial district setting). The choice would then become - do you incorporate the short sidings on the 'open' side of the peninsula into one long siding (very prototypical...fewer turnouts to build & maintain, a bit more challening to switch) that does not descend along with the main, or eliminate the aisle side turnouts and create an elevated switching district?
Personally I'd go with the second option. Let the main be just that, travelling down around the industrial district (maybe under some street overpasses & buildings, a la F&SM), while the switching district runs down the center of the peninsula, maybe even down the center of a dirty, busy main street. Have you seen Bob Smaus's original switching layout? Street running can be fun.
This would put the stockyard area a bit lower than the peninsula and yard, for vertical visual separation, but also increase the main line run between yard and "beef" area.
If the single track heading left out of the yard is just a switchback track for the few spurs near the yard, then consider curving it to match the curved track below it. Put a river between the two and you have a nice scenic feature. The river can pass beneath the two tracks exiting the yard, where the main and yard lead curve onto the peninsula. Choice of bridges would be yours, but I'd make them two different types, maybe a girder for the main and a pile trestle for the yard lead.
Just a few creative suggestions - again, choose and use them at your discretion, no offense taken if they don't make it on the layout.
Galen
I may not be a rivet counter, but I sure do like rivets!
Galen, thanks for the ideas. That river sounds great. I will see what I can do about the rest. And I will definitely take you up on the offer of the structures All the structures that I have right now will need to stay on the house layout.
Loren
I got my first train when I was three,
put a hundred thousand miles on my knees.
Quote:And I will definitely take you up on the offer of the structures All the structures that I have right now will need to stay on the house layout.
My pleasure! I was recently blessed with the gift of some excellent kitbashing raw materials and I'd like to pay that forward. It will be some time, as right now I've put kitbashing on the back burner since much of that is packed away or will be shortly.
Question - Are you still planning to run steam on this layout? I don't see any provision for a turntable.
Oh, and btw stock pens can be a simple affair in the middle of nowhere, just a place with a gate and a ramp to load into a car. PLUS, I just saw a neat set of plans in an MR from the late 50's on a stock watering/resting pen. This may be something you might consider for the yard.
Will you also be running milk cars? Little milk platforms & sheds could be found dotted across the countryside next to any flagstop (sometimes they were the flagstop!) A dairy or creamery could be a fun industry.
Galen
I may not be a rivet counter, but I sure do like rivets!
Galen, I have been reading articles where short lines that could not afford turntables would make the return trip tender first. I thought that would be neat, so I left out the turntables. Also, I plan on running my Mantua 2-6-6-2 ( if i can get it running right ) and I wouldn't have room for a turntable big enough to turn it.
I have planned on milk stops along the line, and thought those little sheds from Scale Scenes might be nice for that. Just change the wall textures to wood.
I never thought about a dairy. That sounds good for the open spot I have on the left table
Still working on the angled track thing. I was to tired to do much last night. :cry:
Loren
I got my first train when I was three,
put a hundred thousand miles on my knees.
Last time around. I changed a few things after some suggestions I received. The cattle area was slanted away from the edge of the table.
The industry area was also slanted and a small curve put in. The end curve will drop down at 2.5% grade from 4" to 0" and then go into a tunnel, giving me the whole top for industry. There will be a concrete retaining wall on the inside of the curve. Also added a small river, great idea Galen !
On another happy note, I spent all the money I had saved on track. Last night my wife asked me how much track I still needed. Then she said go ahead and buy it Then she said and go ahead and buy that cuuute little train ( one car is a train to her) you have been looking at. So, I have all the track and joiners on the way And, a Mantua 0-6-0-T What a gal !
Now, if you will will excuse me, I am going to cut some lumber
Loren
I got my first train when I was three,
put a hundred thousand miles on my knees.
Hi all.
Galen ( Ocaliacreek ) suggested I add a center layover track where I have the hidden track under the island industrial area. I started wondering if I could add two tracks and use that for hidden staging instead of the tracks above the yard. I am not sure if it would work since it is in the middle of the layout.
Would it work and how would you operate the staging ? I am thinking the train would come out of staging, go to the yard, be broken up, remade, and proceed around the layout switching some industries until it gets to the left cattle area. There it would pick up full reefers, empty livestock cars, and drop some cars off. Then proceed back to staging. Does this sound reasonable ? Or am I waaaaay out in left field ?
Loren
I got my first train when I was three,
put a hundred thousand miles on my knees.
I pondered potential staging solutions all the way home last night and pulled out the MRP & other resources this morning. Found a great article on the cattle industry, btw.
I think you may find the best enjoyment from doing away with the hidden staging. Here's why:
1. I get the sense you really appreciate seeing the rolling stock you have, and you can't do that when it's hidden away. There isn't room for visible staging off layout, so it's either hidden staging or a visible alternative on the layout somewhere.
2. Operations. Bringing a whole train out of a staging area, going through a switchback to get into the yard, servicing the road power while the yard goat breaks down the train, etc. only works WELL in a couple instances. To begin with, you have to either repeat the runaround in the staging area, or pull the whole train between 'sessions' and shuffle the cars. Fiddling the train consist and putting the engine at the other end of the train works best in an open, visible staging area. See #1. Having to remove a row of buildings or hillside or whatever to reach over the yard and perform this operation isn't ideal. Pulling the train between sessions and fiddling the consists in the yard isn't great for this reason:
3. Where will you keep excess rolling stock when it's not on the layout? If it's in a drawer beneath the yard then fiddling the train between sessions in the yard can work fine. But consider that you're running basically the same maneuvers to bring it out and reset the cars as you would during an operating session.
Here's an alternative idea. First, open up that area that currently holds the staging tracks and use it for something else, either expanding the yard, making a main street shopping area, something. Maybe an animal watering/resting area, or additional icing platforms or both. Now make a runaround siding on the track on the north side of the riverbank (the switchback out of staging). Above the siding on the wall, make a set of shelves to hold rolling stock for display between sessions.
Here's how it operates. The yard switcher goes out to the siding and picks up cars, then sets out cars. It's that simple. Between operating sessions you simply take cars off the display shelves and set them on the layout, and put some back on the shelves. The shelving represents the rest of the world. You can even plug the shelved rolling stock data into the operations software, so it will tell you which cars to pull and which to place on the layout. The siding represents an interchange track.
In a different world there'd be some way for another roadname or through freight, or something to come onto the layout and set out the interchange cars. However there's just no room for that with the benchwork/space constraints. I'm not so keen on that kind of operation anyway, personally. Off-layout staging takes up alot of real estate if visible and specialized sensors, etc. if hidden. So you just pretend that work has been done sometime in the middle of the night, and the morning yard crew goes to the interchange and gets them, just like your current shelf layout yard, only the switcher goes away from the yard to get the interchange traffic before bringing it back and blocking it for a road crew.
Whaddya think?
Galen
I may not be a rivet counter, but I sure do like rivets!
Hi Galen.
So you noticed not to many of my cars are " plain jane ". Your right, I do like bright flashy cars and I like to see them.
Your idea has a lot of merit and I would like a bigger yard. Something for me to seriously consider.
Loren
I got my first train when I was three,
put a hundred thousand miles on my knees.
I'm in the same boat as you and so many other modelers who like really neat rolling stock. I'm a bit more picky about era now than I used to be (I still have 8 unassembled Athearn bright orange Tropicana 50' reefers waiting to see the light of day...may sell those...may not, we'll see) but I think we're not alone. There's a special place in my heart for any kind of Heinz reefer or pickle tank car, etc. I'm still holding out for an 'Apple Butter' Heinz reefer, and I plan on someday designing my own 'Cafe Du Monde' coffee car.
Anyway, another aspect of the suggestions above is that they utilize your existing benchwork. There are other options but they involve either adding a shelf above CowTown (or Cattle Country, whatever you called it ) or some other modification. I'm trying to keep it simple, at least as trackwork is concerned.
Galen
I may not be a rivet counter, but I sure do like rivets!
To Bad those reefers are fifty footers, or I'd jump on 'em. They'd make a nice unit train. And those Heinz reefers are cool.
Your idea of keeping it simple definitely appeals to me, I appreciate that.
Adding a shelf above cowtown ( I like that ! ) sounds interesting, but I have so much to do now, I doubt if I would ever get to it. :cry:
I am still considering your idea of a hidden layover. That would be just the ticket for a unit train of 8 Tropicana reefers heading to be re-iced before they continue down the line. You would have to mention those ! Keep me in mind if you decide to sell them, OK ?
Loren
I got my first train when I was three,
put a hundred thousand miles on my knees.
I will start building tomorrow 
Then she said and go ahead and buy that cuuute little train ( one car is a train to her) you have been looking at. 
And, a Mantua 0-6-0-T 
) or some other modification. I'm trying to keep it simple, at least as trackwork is concerned.
You would have to mention those !