Why do I like the 1950s/'60s so much?

[MasonJar]

With diesels in sight and on order (anywhere from the late 40s to early 60s) it's no wonder the railroads were not interested in upkeep of the steam fleet. You will see pictures as described above, with the only the moving parts being cared for, simply so the engines would not grind to a halt. Many were running without major repairs being undertaken, with time-extensions granted on critical components like boiler tubes or flues in lieu of repairs being carried out. These engines were cut up once they finally stopped working (or no one would dare try another run).

After all, the railways are in business to make money, no matter how noble, socially or historically important, or otherwise we may think they are/were.

The 1950s were the end of an era... not only were the steamers disappearing from the scene after more than 125 years, but a myriad of changes in society means that "things will never be the same". Not that I'm pining for the "good old days", but it is a little heartbreaking to see the "deadlines" of steamers waiting to be towed to the torch...

I guess the bottom line is that for me modelling is a time machine, and I'd like to travel beyond my lifetime.

Andrew

[Puddlejumper]

My reasoning is very simple... I like GP7s and F3s. That is the main reason I like the 50s-60s. But my models are mostly and anachronism, as I like articulated well cars as well...

Dave

[Russ Bellinis]

Interesting! Good point. I know that British steam engines in the 1960s became VERY run down -- I have several books showing colour railway pics taken in the 1960s. Steam locos ran in Britain until 1968 and British Railways allowed many of them to become very run-down and rusty. Instead of being black or green, many were a rusty brown or grey -- very undignified. Some were even shorn of their numbers or name plates and appeared to have chalk numbers scribed on their sides!

I do a fair bit of current rail-fanning with my kids and -- while the diesel engines appear to be in good condition -- most of the freight cars are very rusty and many are covered in graffiti! So the same is partly true of the modern era but maybe not as severe as the '50s/60s?

Rob

Robert, in the late 1990's the U.P., BNSF, and Tropicana started running what were essentially Carrier-Transicold trailer refrigeration units on their mechanical reefers. They ran Thermo King units as well for the early experiments, but in the case of BNSF, they had so many safety blue flag violations committed by T-K technicians that the company sent out a letter to all T-K dealers advising them that they would be removing their units and that T-K techs would be considered treepassers and subject to prosecution if they set foot on BNSF property! Carrier did not want the same situation to happen with us, so the company put on trainiing seminars all over the country with their dealer techs to teach us Blue Flag law, basic railroad safety, etc. When we went over to the Tropicana yard to look over one of the cars equipped with a Carrier unit, one of the guys noticed how dirty and beat up the car looked and asked how often they washed them. The BNSF supervisor in charge of freight car maintenance said "Never! The only reason for a car to be repainted or cleaned up is if we need to rebuild it, or remove enough graffiti to restencil the reporting marks." Most of the railroads look at their diesel engines as sort of rolling bill boards for advertising the company ( some don't care as long as they run reliably), but it seems nobody cares how a freight car looks as long as it is in good reliable operating condition.

[RobertInOntario]

...I do a fair bit of current rail-fanning with my kids and -- while the diesel engines appear to be in good condition -- most of the freight cars are very rusty and many are covered in graffiti! So the same is partly true of the modern era but maybe not as severe as the '50s/60s?
Rob

Robert, in the late 1990's the U.P., BNSF, and Tropicana started running what were essentially Carrier-Transicold trailer refrigeration units on their mechanical reefers. They ran Thermo King units as well for the early experiments, but in the case of BNSF, they had so many safety blue flag violations committed by T-K technicians that the company sent out a letter to all T-K dealers advising them that they would be removing their units and that T-K techs would be considered treepassers and subject to prosecution if they set foot on BNSF property! Carrier did not want the same situation to happen with us, so the company put on trainiing seminars all over the country with their dealer techs to teach us Blue Flag law, basic railroad safety, etc. When we went over to the Tropicana yard to look over one of the cars equipped with a Carrier unit, one of the guys noticed how dirty and beat up the car looked and asked how often they washed them. The BNSF supervisor in charge of freight car maintenance said "Never! The only reason for a car to be repainted or cleaned up is if we need to rebuild it, or remove enough graffiti to restencil the reporting marks." Most of the railroads look at their diesel engines as sort of rolling bill boards for advertising the company ( some don't care as long as they run reliably), but it seems nobody cares how a freight car looks as long as it is in good reliable operating condition.

Thanks, Russ. I'm sure you're right. As long as the freight cars operate OK, there's probably no need to repaint or wash them. Regarding the engines ... I hadn't thought about it much until just recently but it does seem that they are kept fairly clean and in good order, so that they are good advertisements, etc. Now I find myself watching the current diesel engines more closely and realize that their appearance/ condition is actually quite good, especially when compared to the run-down steam locos of the 50/60s. It's funny how nostalgia can create glamorous images & memories of the past that aren't 100% accurate!

Rob

[steinjr]

The '50s transition era is popular for a number of reasons but I was noting a personal fondness of it apart from the steam-to-diesel aspect.

Well, some more reasons (besides steam, which I don't model on my layout ) for why I picked Minneapolis in 1957 as my modeling locale and era:

I wanted to create a layout based on an American prototype - I had a yearning for a layout based on fairly early diesels, freight, switching. Preferably Minnesota, preferably Twin Cities, preferably late 1950s or early 60s.

Why preferably Twin Cities/Minnesota ? I wanted a US location I am somewhat familiar with and would have a fair chance to do research on. Minnesota is my "adopted" US state - the part of the US I am most familiar with, since my wife is from the Twin Cities and we visit the cities every summer. There is also an excellent history center in Saint Paul, which also has a large collection of photographs - much of it also available online.

Why preferably late 1950s ? 1950s diesels and 40' boxcars are smaller than more modern equipment, and the 1950s had a *lot* more businesses that were directly rail served than these days. Both of those are better when designing a small switching layout, which is what I had room for if I was going to do a H0 scale layout in my home.

There were still a lot of very cool looking diesel engines in interesting color schemes from at least four builders (GM/EMD, GE, Alco and FM) and owned by quite a few colorful and interesting railroads in this region in the late 1950s and early 1960s.

So I cast around and tried various ideas - I tried for the Minnesota Transfer Railway in the Midway area of Saint Paul, and worked up a design for that. It was tempting, since the MTRY ("The Mighty Midget") handled interchange for a lot of cool railroads :

* Milwaukee road
* Rock Island
* Great Northern
* Minneapolis & Saint Louis
* Chicago Great Western
* Omaha Road/C&NW
* Northern Pacific
* Soo Line

but the design just got too big & complicated to build as a first layout.

Then I looked into a freelanced generic urban 2x7 foot shelf layout. Nope - I wanted to model something based on/inspired by a real midwest prototype.

Then I looked at the Milwaukee Road along the urban "canyon" of huge elevators down along Hiawatha Avenue in South Minneapolis - very cool scenery with the huge elevators, but not varied enough traffic pattern - too much grain, too little other things.

Then I found a prototype that had a cool track plan, an interesting operating pattern (no runaround, used two engines to switch cuts of cars from either the east or the west) and a lot of interesting industries - Progressive Rail ca 2000 in Airlake Industrial Park in Lakeville, to the south of the cities.

But as I expended the Progressive Rail layout plan from 2x7 foot until it was a shelf layout all around the walls of a 6 1/2 x 11 1/2 foot room, I finally realized that I kept wanting to backdate Progressive Rail from 2000 to the late 1950s, and transplant it from a suburban industrial park to an urban neighborhood, so I again went a-looking again to see I couldn't find a more urban prototype.

And then I stumbled upon pictures of the Omaha Road (Chicago, St Paul, Minneapolis and Omaha Railroad) in the warehouse district of Minneapolis. The Omaha Road was owned by Chicago and Northwestern, and was fully absorbed into the C&NW in 1957. C&NW is one of the roads I also like, and there is a lot of C&NW rolling stock available.

The icing on the cake was that the Omaha Road West Minneapolis yards was located right next door to the yards of the Northern Pacific and the Milwaukee Road, and the Great Northern and the Minneapolis and St. Louis ran right past the yard. It wouldn't look too jarringly out of place if I fudged a little to add a wee bit of interchange traffic with some of these other roads to my layout.

I had found a time and place to base my layout on - urban Twin Cities, late 1950s, variety in loads and industries, and a plausible interchange with other interesting Minnesota railroads.

The Midwestern roads I find fascinating have become fallen flags, among these:
* The Omaha Road merged into the C&NW in 1957.
* The "Tootin Louie" (M&STL) merged into the C&NW in 1960
* The Chicago Great Western was merged into C&NW in 1968.
* The NP and the GN merged into the Burlington Northern in 1970 - and 1996 the BN was merged with the ATSF to form the BNSF.
* The Rock went bankrupt for the third (and final) time in 1975
* The Milwaukee Road was merged into the Soo Line in 1986, after being in strong decline since the early 1970s.
* The C&NW was merged into the UP in 1995
* The Soo line is today owned by the Canadian Pacific Railroad.

As for engines, I have a weakness for small switchers from Alco and GE and Alco RS-3 road switchers, but also wanted a few samples of other builders. I presently have 7 diesel engines for my layout, three or four of which I expect to be on the layout at the same time.

* CMO GE 44-ton switcher #51
* CMO GE 70-ton switcher #53
* CNW FM H16-44 #1514
* MSTL Alco S1 #142
* MILW Alco RS3 #2475
* GN Alco RS3 #228
* NP EMD GP7 #569

So - sure. It takes an interest in the roads and engines and rolling stock etc of the era as well - chosing the 1950s as a modeling era isn't just about steam to diesel transition, and it isn't just about engines and rolling stock being generally shorter in the 1950s than i e.g. the post-1970 period.

Grin,
Stein

[RobertInOntario]

The '50s transition era is popular for a number of reasons but I was noting a personal fondness of it apart from the steam-to-diesel aspect.

Well, some more reasons (besides steam, which I don't model on my layout ) for why I picked Minneapolis in 1957 as my modeling locale and era:
I wanted to create a layout based on an American prototype - I had a yearning for a layout based on fairly early diesels, freight, switching. Preferably Minnesota, preferably Twin Cities, preferably late 1950s or early 60s.
Why preferably Twin Cities/Minnesota ? I wanted a US location I am somewhat familiar with and would have a fair chance to do research on. Minnesota is my "adopted" US state - the part of the US I am most familiar with, since my wife is from the Twin Cities and we visit the cities every summer. There is also an excellent history center in Saint Paul, which also has a large collection of photographs - much of it also available online.

Stein,

Your situation is sort of similar to mine. I mainly model the Somerset & Dorset Railway (S&D) in the 1950s/60s, which is in SW England. It's not that far from where my wife is from (which is Winchester, England). We visit there every 12-18 months, so that gives me a chance to study the area (not the exact area, but close to it, as well as visiting steam heritage railways). The S&D is a popular choice among UK modelers because the S&D used a wide variety of locos from all over England. So you can get away with running all sorts of locos that would normally be seen in the West Country, Midlands, South and even the northeast!

Rob

[BR60103]

Rob: you can also play the Wurzels on your gramophone while you operate.

[RobertInOntario]

Rob: you can also play the Wurzels on your gramophone while you operate.

OK, I'll have to Google the Wurzels and I never had a gramophone! Although I've certainly used a record player and tape player in the past ... and I was actually taping (i.e. using a VCR) American Idol for my wife tonight! Rob

[MadModeler]

I was born in the late 60s and the neighbourhood I grew up in had a train track running behind the houses across the street from me. I find myself wanting to model pretty much all eras in some shape and form but find myself leaning towards the 60s and 70s myself. Part of that reason is that my home town (when I was a child) was smaller but much more alive than what it is today. We had a large variety of industries back then. The downtown core was much better with the theatres we had. Only one of them still exists (one was demolished and two others were converted to night clubs).

To me, modelling can be considered a living snap shot of the past with a generous helping of fantasy thrown in to suit personal taste.

[RobertInOntario]

Rob: you can also play the Wurzels on your gramophone while you operate.

I've now looked up the Wurzels and they look great -- looks like a West Country version of Hee Haw??

I'm sure my wife and in-laws have heard of them.

Take care,
Rob

[Empirebuilder]

Late 50s early 60s........Cruising !!!!
'

[GS4]

Rob, I'm another one who is going to blow your theory apart or perhaps you can explain how a guy who was born in the early '50's, 1952 to be precise, in England, migrated in '53 to South Africa, where he grew up and still resides, who has never seen an American train in real life, has an addiction for modern day American railroading !!!

Sure I have a love for steam locos, as they ran here until the 1980's. My favorite steam locos are SP's GS4 Daylight 4-8-4, the 4-8-8-2 Cabforwards, the N & W Y6b 2-8-8-2 and South African Railways Class 25 4-8-4, Class GMAM 4-8-2 + 2-8-4 Garratt and Class 19D 4-8-2 with a long van der Bilt tender. Yet I have no desire to model any era before the mid 1980's. My favorite railroad is the BNSF, though I do have a liking for the SP in pre-UP days. I also have an interest in the BNSF's predecessor roads, BN, ATSF, GN and CB & Q.

As to British modeling, not an inkling of interest, this despite the fact that my father was a British modeler, who had an extensive O gauge layout before the war.

Cheers, Simon

[RobertInOntario]

Rob, I'm another one who is going to blow your theory apart or perhaps you can explain how a guy who was born in the early '50's, 1952 to be precise, in England, migrated in '53 to South Africa, where he grew up and still resides, who has never seen an American train in real life, has an addiction for modern day American railroading !!!

Sure I have a love for steam locos, as they ran here until the 1980's. My favorite steam locos are SP's GS4 Daylight 4-8-4, the 4-8-8-2 Cabforwards, the N & W Y6b 2-8-8-2 and South African Railways Class 25 4-8-4, Class GMAM 4-8-2 + 2-8-4 Garratt and Class 19D 4-8-2 with a long van der Bilt tender. Yet I have no desire to model any era before the mid 1980's. My favorite railroad is the BNSF, though I do have a liking for the SP in pre-UP days. I also have an interest in the BNSF's predecessor roads, BN, ATSF, GN and CB & Q.

As to British modeling, not an inkling of interest, this despite the fact that my father was a British modeler, who had an extensive O gauge layout before the war.

Cheers, Simon

Hi Simon,

Interesting! Well, I can partly relate. I think my interest in British trains is a little similar to your interest in U.S. trains. While I have seen British steam trains on several trips to England, I certainly did not grow up with them. In other words, it was an "acquired interest" not a childhood memory, etc.

Quite a few British model railway enthusiasts who live in Canada are now in their 60s and 70s. They are British model railway enthusiasts because they actually DID grow up watching British steam when they lived England. Their interest in largely nostalgic, rooted in memories.

I think we have both acquired a taste for respective "foreign" railways -- "fond memories of things never experienced" so quote someone else!

Thanks,
Rob

[RobertInOntario]

This response is partly related to Simon's post above, but is also a general comment.

Like my late father, I could certainly develop a very eclectic taste in trains! My Dad collected British, US and Canadian locos and had anything ranging from the "Rocket" right up to a modern British HST diesel. And, although he mainly ran HO, he had anything ranging from N to O (N, TT, HO, OO, S and O)!

While my main focus is on British steam in the 1950s/60s (you have to have a main emphasis, right?), I still enjoy modeling and reading about Canadian steam & diesel power in the 1950s.

As I think about this thread, I realize that I could become interested in creating (say) a 1920s or 1930s layout. This could be a nice future project for some 5-10 years down the road. Since limited space is likely to be an ongoing issue, a 1920/30s layout would work out well, as the locos as well as the rolling stock are smaller in that era.

Rob