Ocalicreek's Garage Layout Planning Thread

[ocalicreek]

I may have said it before, but I kindof got spoiled on the modular layout I was used to down in SoCal. There my 70' passenger cars looked just great on the club layout 36" radius curves. And this was something a little different, btw. BOTH mainlines, inside and outer, were 36" radius curves. This made for a little extra clearance between tracks at the middle of the curve. Not sure if it was planned that way or just a happy accident, but it's not a bad idea for a club layout with parallel main lines and a wide variety of equipment on each.

I like the look of larger 85' equipment (read: pullman passenger cars with the nice arched windows) but it almost looks way too big unless the curves are large enough to match and there's a decent run to see the whole train stretched out. Still, most of my stuff is of the 40' and smaller variety, both passenger and freight.

Galen

[nomad]

Hey Galen, how you doing on your plan? Between you and TrainNut, I kinda hoped there would be something by now.

Loren

[TrainNut]

I'm having a hard time keeping your hidden track to a minimum with the ideas I'm trying to use. I toyed with a twice around but then you've got four tracks going across the narrow vertical part. I'm still not sure if your up for reverse loops or not because unless you automate them, you will have to pay attention and switch the switch at both ends every time the train comes through. I'm working on a folded dog bone idea but again, with the benchwork configuration, there is a lot of hidden track at the backs of the loops (x4). I'm also trying to avoid making your trains look lost... there goes the train.... and it's coming back again. You had mentioned that you were going to take some time to chew on ideas and I'm curious as to what you've come up with.
I'm almost thinking keeping this simpler would be more. Maybe just a once 'round... I dunno.

[ocalicreek]

Loren - work/family has kept me busy the past few days, i.e., away from any planning. I did, however, get more accomplished one evening out in the garage. Looking at the potential costs and timeline for the larger layout, I have decided to resurrect the 4x6 in order to get something running besides the timesaver. No plans as of yet to even try to incorporate it into the larger layout. IN fact, it will most likely get dismantled and absorbed into that layout when the time comes.

I inherited a couple raised garden beds in the yard when we moved here. They're really not where I'd put them had I planned and placed them, but one was full to the brim with strawberries and is giving us plenty of little red gems to snack on at present. In the Fall I will most likely move them as I prepare additional beds for next year's gardening. Some of the strawberries may not make it, but most will...they're hardy plants.

This is kindof my approach to the larger layout. I've got the 4x6 framework, plenty of rail and a few ties, scenery materials, structures, etc. most of which can be put to good use on the larger "permanent" layout. PLUS, I enjoy the time planning and revising.

Also, working on the Timesaver and the 4x6 keeps me from getting bored with just straight rolling stock kits or dioramas and keeps me from devolving into 'analysis paralysis' with the planning.

TrainNut - I love/hate reading those early articles by Frank Ellison. His theatrical ideas on operation really strike a chord with me. Makes me want to cram in as much track as possible at the expense of tighter curves and shorter trains just to get as many trains scheduled and run as possible. Funny how all the 'great' operators and planners (John Allen, Frank Ellison, Whit Towers, John Armstrong) were all freelancers (Gorre & Daphetid, Delta Lines, Alturas & Lone Pine, Canandaigua Southern). Operation didn't necessarily have to replicate any certain prototype, in fact, the deck was stacked, so to speak, in favor of getting trains out there on the main with meets, switching, etc. with complications the full size trains worked so hard to eliminate.

When I think operation this is what comes to mind. I don't want to replicate N&W's Abingdon Branch, but the out and back once daily mixed train has its appeal. I'd have to change it, however, to a dedicated passenger train (or two - one each way) and a peddler freight, then throw in a couple coal drags, a reefer/milk/mail hotshot in the morning, etc. to get the feel of the Branch but increase the traffic for added interest.

All that to say, the train can go here and then come back there and it won't look lost as long as there's some work to do at 'here' and at 'there'. Reverse loops are okay - I'm running DCC and should be able to link the reverse module with a turnout motor. I'll shell out the dough for a tortoise & controller decoder for something like that.

The simpler is more approach appeals to the artist in me - just create a scene like Sellios does on the F&SM, and let the trains be almost secondary players. ALTHOUGH - how the mighty have fallen! Just today I read the 'Trains of Thought' column by Operations Czar Koester all about how he was helping George rework the F&SM so that they could have operating sessions, naturally, tying it all in with prototype locations. Grrr....Will Furlow end up being the only pure artist left in the hobby?

Galen

[ocalicreek]

Bump. Anything, anybody?



Galen

[Steamtrains]

Observation....I think Tony K. has been taking himself altogether too seriously for some time now....I sure don't want my "play" time to be rigidly structured by timetables, train orders, etc, etc....I get enough of that at work....

Galen, I would contribute something to help you along,,,but I'm a terrible track planner....

[TrainNut]

Like I said before,

You had mentioned that you were going to take some time to chew on ideas and I'm curious as to what YOU've come up with.

It would be really helpful to see a sketch of or two of your ideas so I can get a feel for the style of layout your looking for. I'm a graphics person and I have a hard time with verbal descriptions. With that said,
I like mountains and curves and this is what I would do with that space. I tried using 26 inch radius but they just sucked up to much real estate and so I reverted back to 22's.

Folded dog bone, double reverse loops. I threw it together in about an hour... just a rough idea at this point. You could narrow down that middle aisle from 5'4 wide to 3' but that would increase your unreachable space by quite a bit. I figure the elevation difference from the bottom to the top could be anywhere from 3" to 8". I have not taken the time to calc grades.

[nomad]

TrainNut, that looks a lot like the track plan I suggested. We must be thinking alike on this
Here is what I suggested, but leave off the bottom part and put the yard on the right like you did.

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Loren

[TrainNut]

Mmmmm, that's a nice one. Much better than what I came up with. I think I'm going to work on something much simpler. This layout just doesn't have enough space to pull something like this off. I've got the mainline in there but there's not a whole lot of room for anything else and it sounds like Galen wants a lot of busy stuff.

[ocalicreek]

I tried using 26 inch radius but they just sucked up to much real estate and so I reverted back to 22's.

I layed out that passenger train of 70' cars on a 22" radius line just to see what that looks like, and it's not horrible. Like I mentioned before, once you've run on big curves I think you kindof get used to seeing that. Anyway, that's more than likely to be an exception to the rule as far as trains on the layout. What I mean to say is, the J and Arrow cars probably will only make an occasional appearance (along with a few other consists that don't exactly fit the era, locale, or setting). All that to say, I've been planning with 22's as well.

I'll get something scanned in later this morning. TrainNut - what you can throw together in an hour is great. Still, you are right. It's curvy and would suit itself to a mountainous mainline, but adding in sidings to generate traffic could get tricky.

Steamtrains - I agree. Tony's good at what he does, but I think to attach operation to a spec. prototype isn't necessary. The Ocali Creek Ry. is freelanced - even so, I like the idea that the trains are doing work out there on the line. Keeps it interesting.

Loren - The BL&T has influenced my sketching since you mentioned it a while back. I think you'll see some of that influence in the plan I'll be posting later. Part of the discussion over on the other forum was regarding the 'scene-cerity'. I'm okay passing through the same town twice, if the conditions are right; either there is some grade separation or semblance of a reason to have multiple tracks, such as a junction (a la Cross Junction on the G&D).

Galen

[ocalicreek]

Okay, here's the latest working sketch. What you see is the basic mainline, passing sidings, and grade check. The yard portion over on the right is not filled in and so the length has been chopped off to cut down on file size...it's still 10'3", just not shown.

   

Follow a train over the route. Beginning in the yard, take the curved leg of the wye along the aisle. Staying close to the aisle head down a slight grade (more on why in a sec) into the first passing siding. Take the track closest to the aisle and continue around into the tunnel. As you exit the tunnel, stop at station A before heading up the hill.

Leaving the station continue on the inner track up past the wye below and around into the next passing siding. Station B is a flag stop and the main reason for being is the small mining community (mostly represented on the backdrop) serving the mine reached by the long spur coming off the passing track. The passing track is located on a 2% grade so uphill trains have priority over downhill trains in order to avoid having to stop and start again on the grade. Plenty of sand on the tracks there.

Leaving the flagstop, continue to the top of the grade just before the bridge over the lower tracks down at Station A. Round the bend and we arrive in town at Station C. Here there is an interchange with some other Appalachian carrier OR a branchline connection represented by the wye track curving around to the backdrop.

This is the sneakback track for continuous running and is a 3% grade downhill the length of the hidden trackage - not too steep that trains can't circle the layout heading up this track, but more often than not trains will begin at the Yard, travel the length of the line, turn on the wye and head back home the way they came. The slight grade out of the yard toward A is to allow a lesser grade on that hidden track.

Min. Radius is 22", with some of the tracks along the aisle a bit more than 24" radius. Again, longer trains can run on the layout, they just may not fit well into the story-line.

Galen

[ocalicreek]

OH, and I should mention, if you are still confused, just turn the whole drawing to the left in order to orient it with the room as drawn previously. It's just easier to sketch with the paper horizontal than vertical.

Here's another traffic flow scenario. Instead of traveling past town A into the tunnel before stopping at station A, trains could stop at A then the engine would need to run around the train or shove it up hill past B into C. This would free up that hidden loop track under C to be a single staging track representing a branch or other route on the system.

A train could originate there heading out under the bridge into A, then head toward the yard. After swapping freight cars or pausing at the passenger station (servicing the engine and turning the train, naturally) it would head out and return the way it came into that staging.

Same can be done with the hidden grade along the wall, only here I'd stage a Big Tujunga Lumber Company train, maybe even dedicate a siding at C just for a few interchange cars. Mostly finished hardwood lumber destined to become fine furniture, logging supplies and other goods headed back to the logging communities.

I had drawn in a couple spots for sidings, but by far not the only ones. And I've got a yard design that I need to clean up before I post.

Galen

[nomad]

Two things Galen. Is that a wye next to the yard ?
Will you need to duck under to get at the hidden trackage in back ? If so, I would leave it visible.

Loren

[ocalicreek]

Two things Galen. Is that a wye next to the yard ?
Will you need to duck under to get at the hidden trackage in back ? If so, I would leave it visible.

Loren

Yes, it is indeed a wye next to the yard...I think the sketch didn't scan well and my photoshop clean-up efforts may have hindered more than helped. I've been going through the XtrkCad tutorials this afternoon and will work toward getting this layout as well as the yard section drawn/converted.

As for the 'idden trackige, I plan on leaving a low view block in front. I've got tunnel entrances marked, but really it will disappear from view, that is, curve out of sight behind the mountains on each blob; under a tree canopy, behind a fence, in a cut, etc. I will leave strategic pop-ups (for hands and at best a head) for the back turnouts on each wye.

Galen

[nomad]

I' m home so give me a call if you need help with XTRk. I'm not an expert, but I've used it enough lately to get around fairly good.
That plan looks good. Are you still going to build a small layout for now ?

Loren