The Modesto & Empire Traction Company Layout Trackplan

[Trucklover]

Hi guys,

Ive been thinking about my plans for the Modesto & Empire Traction Company. I have it hanging on my closet door, so everytime i open my closet or walk out of my room, i see it hanging, waiting for some more work.... Ive been thinking alot, and i really want to condense it somewhat. Currently, i have it set up in somewhat of a Free-Mo setup, with 35 modules which would occupy a space of 40'x30' if they were all set up together. Of coarse, i did not plan to set them up all at once anyways, and rather just run a few at a time....

Now im thinking of trying to setup this plan to be partial layout, and partial modules. I have always wanted to take a few modules to a train show, set them up with a group, and run them and watch people look at my work. I had planed to do this with my original M&ET plans, and i still want to be able to take a few modules with me to a train show here and there, so i will have to keep that in mind.

My plans for this re-design on this M&ET layout would be to have a double decker layout, with a helix connecting the 2 levels. Now since the M&ET is a shortline railroad, and they only have switchers (the newest ones being 2 Gensets #2000 and 2001 which arrived in December of 2008) this would mean i could keep the helix radius down to a fairly small radius of 22". It does not have to be large, nor does it have to look good with a train going up or down, because it will not be seen.


Here is the original plans for the M&ET i came up with after spending 2 months working from Google Earth, Live Maps, and Google Maps Street View. This first pic is a shot showing the overall design, zoomed out

[Trucklover]

These next shots show the plan zoomed in a bit so you can see the different industries and more details about the tracks and such....

The first one is the top left section in the pic in the post above.
The Second one is the bottom left section in the pic in the post above.
The Third one is the top right section in the pic in the post above.

[Trucklover]

This Fourth one is the bottom right in the pic in the post above.

[Trucklover]

Now lets do a color code for the tracks, roads, tables....

GREEN = Module/Layout Base
RED = BNSF Mainline
YELLOW = BNSF/M&ET Interchange Yard
WHITE = Old Intermodal Yard, now the Transload Facility
BLACK = M&ET Trackage
ORANGE = Structures
GRAY = Roads


~~ALL the turnouts for this layout are Central Valley #8's or greater (#9's and #10's in the Interchanfe Yard and Yard Leads)
~~MINIMUM Track Radius is 22"
~~MINIMUM Parallel Track Spacing is 2"
~~GRID SPACING = 6"

[Trucklover]

This is the first time ive made these plans public and shared them with the forums, so far, only a few select people have seen these plans. My original intent was to take these plans to Model Railroader as a LARGE layout plan in an article, but i think i will wait until i start building the layout/modules to shoot for an article with MR.

In the meantime, what do you guys think. Im open to comments, suggestions, questions, anything you got i would like to hear it


Well thats it for now, until i can work on the plan some to change it like i described in the first post

[shortliner]

Josh - If I was going to build it, I d start with picture 5 and work up to picture 4, building it as a switching layout. The only thing that bothers me is that you only have one runround right at top right of picture 4, at Codoni Ave. It may be prototypical, but it will drive you mad in a VERY short space of time, since EVERY train will need to be blocked into switching order, before you leave the yard, and setouts and pickups will mess with it . You will need a hefty fiddle yard to set up the initial blocking. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a wonderful idea, but possibly a little over-ambitious for a solo build/operation. I'd personally go for a couple of sections and see how I felt about it at that point.

[nachoman]

that's huge!!! Probably bigger than my whole house!

[Russ Bellinis]

Josh, the radius of a helix not only allows for the use of long equipment, but also allows for reasonable grades. You probably need about 3.5-4 inches from the rail top to the bottom of the next level of the helix. You don't need road bed on a hidden helix, but you will need it to be strong enough not to flex. If it is made of 1/2 inch plywood, with 1/4 inch allowed for the rails, you are looking at going up 4 3/4 inches in each revolution of the helix. If I have figured the math correctly, you are looking at slightly more than a 3% grade, but you are going to tie up a space of nearly 48 x 48 inches for the helix. An alternative might be to put Modesto Yard on an "elevator" traversing between the 2 levels of the layout.

[Trucklover]

Josh - If I was going to build it, I d start with picture 5 and work up to picture 4, building it as a switching layout. The only thing that bothers me is that you only have one runround right at top right of picture 4, at Codoni Ave. It may be prototypical, but it will drive you mad in a VERY short space of time, since EVERY train will need to be blocked into switching order, before you leave the yard, and setouts and pickups will mess with it . You will need a hefty fiddle yard to set up the initial blocking. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a wonderful idea, but possibly a little over-ambitious for a solo build/operation. I'd personally go for a couple of sections and see how I felt about it at that point.

I see your point, and i forgot about runarounds LOL. I was just going with the prototype, and figured if the M&ET does it like this, then i could do the same. But i forgot that they have blocks and blocks of space, when i have a condensed model LOL. I will have to try and fix this and add some run-arounds in there. I really would like to re-do that whole section in picture 4 with all those industries.... My original intent was to have scenes on both sides of the structures, trucks in front and rail docks in the back just like the prototype, but i might have to change this due the space issue lol

[Trucklover]

that's huge!!! Probably bigger than my whole house!

LOL yes, its very very large, im hoping to fix some of that by making it a double decker layout with a with few modules instead of 35! LOL

[Trucklover]

Josh, the radius of a helix not only allows for the use of long equipment, but also allows for reasonable grades. You probably need about 3.5-4 inches from the rail top to the bottom of the next level of the helix. You don't need road bed on a hidden helix, but you will need it to be strong enough not to flex. If it is made of 1/2 inch plywood, with 1/4 inch allowed for the rails, you are looking at going up 4 3/4 inches in each revolution of the helix. If I have figured the math correctly, you are looking at slightly more than a 3% grade, but you are going to tie up a space of nearly 48 x 48 inches for the helix. An alternative might be to put Modesto Yard on an "elevator" traversing between the 2 levels of the layout.

Great advise Russ, thanks for your reply

The longest equipment i would be running in my trains would be 60' cars. I dont anticipate on running 72' Centerbeams, 89' Auto Carriers, Double Stacks besides in the yard and in the Transload Facility and maybe to a couple businesses along the left side of the layout which would be on the top level. There for they would not need to go onto the lower level.... I would however like decent spacing between the 2 levels. im not sure, but i think 12-14" between the top and bottom levels would be good. Any opinions on level spacing?

Im not the best at math, and im going to need some help with the creation of the grades and such on the helix... lol. I wouldnt mind having a 3% grade on the helix. Ill be running three or four 70 Tonners, 2 SW1200's or 2 Gensets, which should be enough power to tackle the grade. Obviously a grade less then 3% would be the best, but i dont think its a must... Opinions are welcome on this as well

[Trucklover]

I guess i should have mentioned, these plans are for many years to come. I dont expect to complete these and bang these out in a year, 2 years, or anything even remotely close to that time frame. I plan on modeling and building these modules for many many years to come. This will be my one BIG project that ill stick too. I seriously have my heart set on this, and thats rare for me to keep interest in the same plans for over a year...

Ive had 3 layouts in the past, all of them were practice layouts where i learned new techniques and such, and ive also built a few Modules to further practice on....


Now for storage, its also something i have thought about alot. Nothing is in the works yet as for a design for a rack to store multiple modules on, but im thinking about several racks that would be like shelving units where i could pull a module out, and set it up on the floor with other modules. Each module would have a set of 4 legs that would hinge down.... All structures would be removable from all modules so that space between shelves on the storage rack could be maximized for the most modules stored on one rack. I would simply have to pull the structures out and set them on the modules when there set up....

Its somthing i need to think about a little more, but i have basic ideas of how i could tackle the storage issue for modules lol

[MasonJar]

Hi Josh,

That's a great plan. I have a few comments that I hope will help.

• Don't use built in legs. You will need a set for every module. If you plan on only setting up a few (or several ) at a time, build interchangeable legs. Our modular group uses nominal 2x2 with a hanger bolt in the top, and a corresponding t-nut in the gusset in each corner of the module frame.
  
  
• Standardize your track placement. You can use Freemo standards, NMRA standards, or whatever. There are several places on your plan that have non-standard interfaces, which will mean that not every module can join every other module. While this is not necessarily bad, it means that the layout must be set up the same way every time.
  
  
• While keeping in mind the above point, also check for things like switches and other "tricky track". Having these challenging areas right next to the end of a module is not a good idea. Also, it is not good to have the switch for one industry on another module. Look at the bottom right of your plan, and you'll see what I mean. Brake Parts Inc, Pacific Distribution, and the others there all have their switches on the adjacent module. If you shifted everything "down" a few inches, each would be a stand alone module.
  
  
• If you haven't yet (it's hard for me to tell), standardize the size of your modules as well. 2 feet X 4 feet is a manageable size for most people to handle on their own. 2x6 is doable, but you may need help when they are paired together (see next point).
  
  
• Build your modules in logical pairs. This helps in two ways - one, you can spread an industry across two modules that are always kept together, and two, high structures on one can fit into vacant lots on another. You can pair them together for storage with "end plates" that allow a 8", 10" or 12" (or whatever) gap in between the modules. With the "business side" inside, they are protected, and pairs of modules can be stacked.
  
  
• Do not make you buildings (or anything else) removable. As much as possible, glue down everything so that the modules can be tipped on end, turned upside down, or whatever. Years of watching guys forget to remove that last truck or building before moving the module has taught me that lesson...! Besides, once you get the module up, you want to run trains - I'll bet that eventually some of the scenery will not make it on before the trains start to roll. Also will save you from having to find separate storage for structures, vehicles, and other removable details.

I hope that helps. Check out <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hotrak.ca">http://www.hotrak.ca</a><!-- m --> for my local modular club, and <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.railwaybob.com">http://www.railwaybob.com</a><!-- m --> for module construction ideas (go through the DCC link).

For the record, this is exactly the way I intend to build - although my supply of module ideas hugely outnumbers the actual construction to date...!

Andrew

[Trucklover]

Andrew, thanks for the reply!!!

• Don't use built in legs. You will need a set for every module. If you plan on only setting up a few (or several ) at a time, build interchangeable legs. Our modular group uses nominal 2x2 with a hanger bolt in the top, and a corresponding t-nut in the gusset in each corner of the module frame.

Now thats an excellent idea!! I will have to do this for sure, and it would certainly keep the weight of each module down considerably! Thanks for that suggestion!!!

• Standardize your track placement. You can use Freemo standards, NMRA standards, or whatever. There are several places on your plan that have non-standard interfaces, which will mean that not every module can join every other module. While this is not necessarily bad, it means that the layout must be set up the same way every time.

Ill have to think this one over. Like i said, my plans are to build a couple modules to complete Free-Mo standards, and have the rest based on Free-Mo. The layout section of the plan would be just kinda my own, since i would not have to move it and such.... Something i was thinking about was making a section that comes off the layout that i could attach a few modules coming off of the layout. Once i got bored or finished switching on those modules i could grab a couple more modules and attach them in the same spot and switch them while still using the layout. This would mean all the modules would have to line up correctly with the one spot on the layout, which might not be the easiest thing to do, but somthing im tossing around in my head LOL

• While keeping in mind the above point, also check for things like switches and other "tricky track". Having these challenging areas right next to the end of a module is not a good idea. Also, it is not good to have the switch for one industry on another module. Look at the bottom right of your plan, and you'll see what I mean. Brake Parts Inc, Pacific Distribution, and the others there all have their switches on the adjacent module. If you shifted everything "down" a few inches, each would be a stand alone module.

Switches and complicated track work on joints is somthing i went through and fixed for the most part. i did however notice 2 locations that i failed to fix with this problem, so ill have to fix that.... The Modules in each "row" like the bottom section you were mentioning will always be hooked up together. Each row will be hooked together and they wouldnt be hooked to any other modules. Kinda like each row is a serious or package, if i wanna run one of the modules i will have to run all of them in that row, which wouldnt be so bad i dont think.... This also brings me back to hooking up module rows to one spot coming off the layout....

• If you haven't yet (it's hard for me to tell), standardize the size of your modules as well. 2 feet X 4 feet is a manageable size for most people to handle on their own. 2x6 is doable, but you may need help when they are paired together (see next point).

I was sticking to a standard for the first part of the plan when i was making it, and most of the modules are still the same size as all the others, but there are still some that are larger then others, or smaller then others. My main size is 2'x6'. I thought that would be a manageable size for a module, and i already have a few modules that are that size, i even have a 2'x7' and a 2'x8' module i can move myself, but those are very light LOL

The larger modules that are in the plan right now i want to try and make part of the layout part of this plan so i would not have to move larger modules like that. If they were part of the layout section, i wouldnt have to worry too much about how big each section was....

• Build your modules in logical pairs. This helps in two ways - one, you can spread an industry across two modules that are always kept together, and two, high structures on one can fit into vacant lots on another. You can pair them together for storage with "end plates" that allow a 8", 10" or 12" (or whatever) gap in between the modules. With the "business side" inside, they are protected, and pairs of modules can be stacked.

Im not sure i quite understand this one, i get the first point, but im getting confused on the second point lol Whats the 8",10", and 12" gap part?

• Do not make you buildings (or anything else) removable. As much as possible, glue down everything so that the modules can be tipped on end, turned upside down, or whatever. Years of watching guys forget to remove that last truck or building before moving the module has taught me that lesson...! Besides, once you get the module up, you want to run trains - I'll bet that eventually some of the scenery will not make it on before the trains start to roll. Also will save you from having to find separate storage for structures, vehicles, and other removable details.

Now thats going to be tough and challenging for me to do. My original plan is to have a shelving unit custom built to hold several modules. I would have it so it could hold maybe 8-10 modules all stacked ontop of each other, with maybe 1-2" between each module for maximum storage. This would bring us back to a standard module size which i would like to be 2x6' for all the modules ill make.... The Shelving units would be slightly longer then the modules themselfs, therefor each module would have its own shelf in the unit and when i wanted to use the modules, i could simply just slide them out of there shelf home and attach the legs and bam, its set up. This would leave me to get the structures for the module(s) from another storage area. The storage for the structures would be another shelving unit and each structure would have a specific home on the shelves so they would fit neatly and safely while still allowing easy access to them. Nothing is set on paper yet, but this is just what i have in my mind. My grandpa will be a huge help in the constructions of the shelving units, hes a woodworker and hes helped me with all my layouts benchwork so far lol

Vehicles would deff need to be removable at all times, regardless if there on a module or the layout. I cant stand not being able to move my trucks around LOL. I wouldnt mind taking them off and setting them up again, i actually like "playing" with them and driving them around on the roads and such, ive gotten good with backing up 53' trailers into narrow dock spaces on buildings LOL

Scenery would be glued down to the modules and layout sections. The M&ET is on pretty flat land, so there wouldnt be much tall scenery or hills on the modules to deal with. Just trees here and there....

Buildings on the layout i could glue down for good though, and those would be permanent

[MasonJar]

Build your modules in logical pairs. This helps in two ways - one, you can spread an industry across two modules that are always kept together, and two, high structures on one can fit into vacant lots on another. You can pair them together for storage with "end plates" that allow a 8", 10" or 12" (or whatever) gap in between the modules. With the "business side" inside, they are protected, and pairs of modules can be stacked.

Im not sure i quite understand this one, i get the first point, but im getting confused on the second point lol Whats the 8",10", and 12" gap part?

If you are going to permanently attach the buildings, you cannot store them on racks 1" to 2" apart. So what I suggest is that you pair the modules, and bolt them face-to-face (i.e. top to top) using "carry plates" to provide the required gap to avoid damage. See <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.railwaybob.com/Modules/ModConstr/Carryplates01.htm">http://www.railwaybob.com/Modules/ModCo ... ates01.htm</a><!-- m --> for a picture.

I would also suggest that a 2x8 foot module is not really manageable on your own. Even if you can construct it light enough to lift, the size of it will be awkward, especially in a basement or through doors where space may be limited. Split this size into two 2x4 footers.

Looking at your plant though, you may be able to do some narrower modules too, like 18"x4, while expanding some others (like the yard) to maybe 30" x 4 or 6.

Cheers,

Andrew