Help with layout design?

[KevinKrey]

Okay, so My layout isnt working the way I want, and to save money and some space, Ive been thinking of taking apart the layout and rebuilding (by reusing as much as possible) and making a smaller more fitting layout than my 20' by 10' attempt at an HO scale DMIR layout. But the idea is smaller, and smaller wouldnt be good for my 6 axle tunnel motors, so now Im also looking at new locos, not to mention some new structures, and more rolling stock that doesnt consist of only ore cars. Now my money saving ideas dont work so well.

So Im thinking of more of a narrow along the wall style shelf layout. Maybe two levels,one level could be a yard/oredock, and the other a taconite yard built into a reverse/return loop on the top. Im thinking there is potential for a nice lone strech of mainline for between the two. Im just wondering if anybody could possibly draw up some ideas for me as Im having some issues figureing it out. I dont have exact measurements, but here is something close.

Thanks guys, Id really appreciate some ideas to work off of.

[KevinKrey]

Okay, here is a new idea of the space Id like the use, the L shape area is where Id like to stick to no more than a simper shelf. Id like to have a continuous running layout, but with what I have drawn up, that really doesnt look possible. Basically heres a list of needs/wants I want to try and fit into this.

Needs: Taconite plant, Yard with adjacent oredock, a good piece of mainline run between the two a few other businesses/indudtries to add some operating interest.

Wants: passing siding on mainline somewhere with a scale track, staging track or something to give impression of freight from other roads.

Any ideas to get me started. I cant come up with anything?

[Charlie B]

Dear Kevin.
I'm sure we are all looking, but no ideas so far. There seems lots of potential here. could you use a removable section where the one opening is for a continuous operation?
Charlie

[KevinKrey]

Dear Kevin.
I'm sure we are all looking, but no ideas so far. There seems lots of potential here. could you use a removable section where the one opening is for a continuous operation?
Charlie

That might have to happen to make a continuous loop. Id like to avoid it, and maybe look at some possibilities for point to point to avoid that. I want to get some other non train related stuff down there, and would like to keep that area open, but that might be next to impossible.

Im fine waiting for replys, Just figured Id toss in the new measuerments to help. Thanks.

[nomad]

Hey Kevin.
Could you do anything with a track plan like this? It has a small mine, a passing siding for the scale you mentioned, and the lower area could be changed to a ore dock.
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Loren

[KevinKrey]

Hey Kevin.
Could you do anything with a track plan like this? It has a small mine, a passing siding for the scale you mentioned, and the lower area could be changed to a ore dock.
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Loren

That gives me a few ideas. I dont want to be too picky here, but that just seems a little too cramped for what I want. The main keeps crossing itself. I want to avoid that if possible.

[MasonJar]

Hi Kevin,

Couple of comments here...

Can you please restate what the elements you want are? There's a bit of mainline running, a prototype of DMIR, some tunnel motors (maybe), continuous running (maybe)...? Please provide more info like minimum radius, acceptable grade (if any), train length desired, planned operations, etc.

Replacing a single level 20x10 with a two level (plus helix??) 20x10 is not going to be simpler or cheaper. I don't really see much of a difference between the two areas you've drawn.

Would the "non-train" stuff be able to fit under a shelf style layout that was (for example) 60" off the floor? That 10x10 blob might be easier to work with if it was stretched out in the form of a shelf that ran around the walls. On the other hand, there are layouts designed for 10x10 rooms (the usual MR "layout in a spare bedroom is typically this size), so you are not stuck for space.

My suggestion is to start drawing up the trackage for the parts you know you want (taconite mill, other industries, plus staging requirements (3 tracks?)) and see what suggests itself. You might want to try variations - i.e. mill on the straight, or in the corner - to see if there is one that's preferred over the other. Make sure you do this reasonably to scale - either use some graph paper or some track planning software to keep you "honest"

Hope that helps.

Andrew

[KevinKrey]

Thanks for the help Andrew. The space I have alotted for here leaves some space that I can use with my table saw, as thats another hobby of mine. But I guess the space i have drawn up even if closed into a solid rectangle opens up other space that can be used. But along that back wall I have a table in the benchwork that currently comes out a good 5' (there is an access whole) but that still complicates stuff. I guess Id just like a more manageable layout, that a shelf style might allow for.

For requirements, Im not real worried about grade, as long as the transition can be small enough for the large wheelbase 6 axle locos I have. For radius, I have flextrack so Im not real sure what Im at, but I know that I have some 24" radius that doesnt cut it. For train length, I can run fairly short trains if need be.

The best way I can describe it is durring an operating session, I want three trains to be able to run if possible at once, one running to from the mill with empty/full cars and bring them to the yard. I want there to be some good time for this train to run, so multiple trips around the layout could help this, while another train is taking emptys off an ore dock and putting full cars on from the yard. I also want there to be an industry or two for another loco to be serving so I can run more than ore cars.
How long would a "ramp" need to be to get to a second level and have a bit of space between the two levels? Im thinking a foot between them, and is a 3% grade about max?

[Triplex]

A foot between two levels isn't much. Remember, you have to think in terms of the top of the lower deck to the *top* of the upper deck, which will be 4" thick or more. And think about how far apart two decks have to be for you to see to the back of the lower deck.

To climb 16" at 3% will take over 44'.

[KevinKrey]

I really dont see a way to get what I want out of what I have here.

[Sir Madog]

Hi Kevin,

don´t get discouraged - planning a layout is not an easy task, but can be very rewarding and even thrilling if you don´t rush yourself.

Most important issue is to answer yourself a number of little questions, leading you to your givens and druthers. These questions are:

What do I expect to get out of building a model railroad?
What will be my role? Will I be just a spectator watching trains, or will I be more active, like a conductor, an engineer, or a switchman?
How much money will I be able to spend over a period of time for my layout?
What era will I be modeling?
What prototype would I like to follow - or is it freelance?
What scale will I be modeling in?
What region will I be modeling?

This list is by no means complete - just food for thought about the issues that will come up during the planning process. Just to give you an idea - my planning process is not yet concluded and I have been working on it for nearly a year now. I have prepared maybe 30 or more different trackplans, and, although I am quite happy with the one I favour at the moment, I know that this can change.

Just take your time and you will get rewarded.

[KevinKrey]

Im wondering how I could mess around with this? Id have to make the turn arounds much bigger of a radius, but thats doable.

[KevinKrey]

Ive still to come up with any good ideas. But what Im now thinking might be a better idea, is to model the duluth harbor more or less. I want to have my DMIR layout, but I could still have my ore dock, some operating for the ore cars, but also have lots of switching opportunities.

[KevinKrey]

The part that really like to throw me off is radius. This trackplan offers LOTS of potential, but the 18" min radius that is used at points would not make my tunnels motors happy.

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Any help getting this to fit?

[Sir Madog]

Your 6-axle tunnel motors should not have a problem negotiating 18" radius curves, but it won´t look good, really. That track plan was not designed for operating big diesels, but short, 4-axle box-cab like electrics.