How to Electrify a railroad

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Very nice work,looks like you have done your Homework.I also like the rungs,the poles on the main line have the rungs about 18"apart.It makes it a Bugger to climb.Can't wait to see the finished product.Keep up the Great work. Harold Cole

18"s eh? sounds like you have first hand experience, but its good to know my information is right (that is the distance those rungs are spaced at!). You wouldn't happen to have any other information on the dimensions and such?

one of the issues i'm not clear on are the turn outs, and the sizes of the horizontal cross beams in certain situations (such as those over crossovers and curves and such).

[OBJack]

Very impressive modeling.
Workmanship and detail like that will really elevate the layout, and be a talking point for sure.
Great set of how to pics as well, thanks.


Jack

[Green_Elite_Cab]

well, i added the "K" to the K-braced bridges. I'm going to make 4-6 more poles. Once i get two more bridges up, i can start laying down some of the wire in between.

I haven't added the wire cross spans (i want to do them all at the same time, rather than having to switch gears between structures). I also haven't added any details to any of the other poles, such as the grab irons, angle braces and insulators. I figure it would be best to wait until just before installation to add these details, so that they don't get damaged while under construction.

I did temporarily stand them up in their intended places for some photos.



a Pair of E33s run "under wire" (not yet, but i had to stage the shot, couldn't help myself).



I cut the horizontal cross brace to the desired length (37 feet in this case) and let the sag brace be a little longer so that i didn't end up "short" on material. I bent it following a template i made (though not exact, just close enough for the time being), marked the pieces and soldered the sag brace centered on the cross piece. It is important to be careful when bending the "T" metal for the sag brace. avoid grasping this piece across the "vertical" portion of the T, instead grab the horizontal edge. This is because you might deform the metal (more than you have to).



I put shims to keep the cross beam level on the jig. The jig, pictured earlier, uses scrap wood and atlas track nails to hold the pieces at right angles. Both the cross beam and the pole were tinned ahead of time. for some reason, the first time around, the solder wouldn't take until i used a 120 watt soldering gun, but so far, a 40-watt iron seems to have worked everywhere else, including this joint on other bridges.




The sag braces continue to be a source of trouble. it would be difficult cut them ahead of time, because as said earlier, if you ended up short, you'd have to start over. At the same time, there is no real easy way to cut the tee except with a dremel tool, and its hard to line that up. I've been getting it right so far, but it always feels like luck. The razor saw is no good for this, and flush cutters still deform the piece.

so far, the system i've been using is first cut as close as i can with the dremel, then use the flush cutters, then grind the end level with the sides of a dremel cut-off disk. I only grind it for a split second, so that 1). it doesn't get to hot, and 2.) to frequently check to see if it is properly lined up. after a minute, i usually get it down to size and it fits in nicely.


Thats it for now. Hopefully, when i get some more bridges built in this basic fashion, i'll go and add more details to them.

[e-paw]

Nice work , Its not easy to do in multiples

[Howie1632]

Any questions you might have,make a list and E-mail me them and i'll get as much info as i can.Harold Cole

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Alright, i haven't got any new photos, but i have now installed the Steady Wires and Hangers, with their 3-disc insulator details. Apart from some additional details (angle braces, grab irons, signal line arms), these catenary structures are ready to hang wires.

I would like to build two more Catenary structures (for a total of 4) before i start hanging the wire. I may have to pick up some additional pieces at the local hobby shop, but it looks like i can get away with what i have for now, if i really wanted to.

Either way, nothing stops me from putting together a few more poles. It looks like a pole with a single Transmission line is about 60 feet, and that doesn't look to bad, so I'm going to stick with that measurement for the "Standard" poles (the poles pictured are MUCH higher to get over the highway bridge).

These next few will be a bit challenging since they are on curves, and they are also going to need to have pull offs for various switches attached to them.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Here is what i've done recently. I've put in the hangers and steady spans for the two bridges i built. I also punched out a few more grab irons, but i need 32 for the long poles (for each pole, 64 for a whole bridge. "standard" bridges need at least half that, luckily). I'm going to have to pick up more brass wire.

There is some question as to whether or not the hangers go all the way down to the steady span on K-brace spans. I've seen it where the hangers ONLY attach to the Messenger wire (the curvy wire), but i've also seen hangers do go down to the steady span. In most of my books, its to hard to really tell. You can kind of see the clips on the steady wire, but the wire itself is often obscure. If there is a general consensus on what is more common, i suppose i can easily change the setup i have now (just snip the wire and unsolder the other end)



This is the jig a friend made me for making the grab irons for each bridge. They might need a little tweaking before installation, but i don't have to eye ball it and play games. I can just punch the wires and bend them.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Alright, its been a month, but starting tommorow, i hope to begin constructing more bridges. I'm going to leave the details for later, only installing the insulators and such so i can begin hanging wires. Right now, the problem i'm having is i ran out of the brass wire i was using and i haven't been able to find a suitable replacement. I'm going to need a TON as well, since all those grab irons add up, and i go through them faster using the jig my friend made.

I should have enough material to construct at least 3 more catenary structures, possibly a fourth if i can reinforce an old IHC signal bridge kit to fit in a particular location (it is so light that the pantographs can push it out of alignment).


These new bridges will be special. They will have thicker cross beams, as is Pennsy policy on curves. They will also require lots of tweaking. There are a number of considerations:

1.) how far to offset the hangers on the catenary bridge. the wire is "banked" on curves, so the location where the hangers attach to the bridge and where the wires hang are offset from each other. luckily, on tight curves, elongated "clips" are not required between the trolley and auxiliary wire.

2.) How far to offset the wires. the Pantograph shoes of an HHP-8 and a GG1 follow totally different paths (the G's pans tend to be offset). I have to find the right distance so that their shoes can glide easily on the wire

I plan to fix this by putting attaching the hangers to the crossbeam, but not soldering the ends together. essentially, the "y" shape will not be completed (yet). I will then tweak the more "horizontal" wire that will hold the trolley wire until it looks like it is about right (after rolling a GG1 and some other electrics through), and then solder the other (supporting) end of the hanger, to complete the "y".

The transmission lines will also be offset on the top. On tighter curves, i've seen them move the outer-most transmission lines to one side (one example would be on the NY&LB (North Jersey Coastline) above the Outerbridge Crossing ramp. I figure this will also keep them safe from people bumping them ( I've already hit two transmission arms ) It appears that on tight curves, the pennsy (or in the current case, NJ transit) alternated between the "standard" transmission arm set up, and the "double on one side" set up.

In the future, i'm going to have to modify these bridges and the ones i've installed a bit to accept the pull off wires of the crossovers they bracket. I think i can do that while i hang the wires after the bridges are solidly installed.

here is a diagram of approximately what the next two bridges will look like. I'll probably build two more of a similar design, though I'm banking on maybe creating some pure wire cross spans instead of all K-braces in the future.

[ac_catenary]

In Philly there are some really neat catenary poles other than the standard K braced ,which I tried to recreate on my Layout.
One of my favorite types are what I call double insulator transmission line or splice poles. These types occur where a transmission line length ends and another length of wire begins.
On the highline at Market street in philly


High line poles on my layout


Some poles are hybrids mixtures of latice and box columns


This pict shows a custom pole which I built that is now on my layout in the Arsenal Section
It is a combination of lattice and box column with 2 phase PRR transmission lines and Peco (former Philadelphia electric)overbuild. This pole has double insulators for transmisssion line splice and a signal line splice


My All time favorites are these
North Philly... Latice offset


Chester Valley Yard .. 4 track catilever


Marcus Hook ..Super PECO overbuild

[Gary S]

I am amazed at the dedication you catenary guys show to the hobby. That is alot of intricate work.

Now, along with that, I also think you guys are crazy, but dedicated none the less! :mrgreen:

[Green_Elite_Cab]

You crashing my thread AC_Catenary?

just kidding! welcome to the-gauge, and i always wondered why they had two insulators out like that, now i know.

I did actually get to work today, made a bunch more grab irons for the H-columns, and i made some of the signal line arms, but i haven't attached them yet.

[tomustang]

I am amazed at the dedication you catenary guys show to the hobby. That is alot of intricate work. :mrgreen:

I agree, and have to say that commuter/passenger/electrics modeling is in a league well above typical modeling

[e-paw]

I think you need a substation GEC......All that juice has to come from somewhere. I also noticed that your soldering skills have greatly improved over the course of this thread. Keep it up.

[ac_catenary]

Cab: Thanks for the Welcome. There is a lot more action over here. Cant wait to see the signal arms and im also interested to see how your gonna do a signal tower. Did you get your silverliner Yet?
Heres some interesting stuff for you.. For extreme curves like the ones at Gap Pa The PRR took a page out of the NH book with triangular catenary.. also notice the verticle angle stock to hold the transmission lines on the curve. This would look really good on your layout.


also check out these wierd transmission line things .. I think they are tensioners ??

[e-paw]

It makes sense that the PRR used an Idea from the NH. I believe they owned a large portion of NH stock. It was the same story with the LIRR.