How to Electrify a railroad

[P5se Camelback]

Being a Juice Jack fan requires being just a little bit "different!"

[Green_Elite_Cab]

well, i had to change one of the transmission arms on the catenary poles i just cut (the double wire-single arm), but i was able to clean it up and shape it straight again, looks fine, so I'll use it on future poles. that particular arm should be closer to 19' or 20' length to be proportionally right with the rest of my catenary transmission arms, so I'll just cut a new length. Basically, a double wire single arm transmission tower has the full distance between two wires on the arm, plus the usual distance between the wire and the pole (so that's 13' from wire to wire, and 6' from wire to pole, +1 foot to mount on the pole) No photos though, but that isn't so exciting anyway.

[MGWSY]

Thats a very nice looking layout you got going there. I love the catenary and it is something I would like to do someday. I know I looked into using some European catenary but eventually I like your route better as its more prototypical for the NEC.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Thats a very nice looking layout you got going there. I love the catenary and it is something I would like to do someday. I know I looked into using some European catenary but eventually I like your route better as its more prototypical for the NEC.

Yeah, its taking time though. So far, i only get anything done when i'm not doing anything . Now with college in gear again, and the end of my summer taken out by a surprise sickness, i'm S O L on getting the catenary built much farther than it is. all my spare time is going towards finished other people projects (for which i will be well compensated, but still).

If you like, i DO have the Andy Rubbo articles which are pretty good at describing the process and giving scale sizes, so i could send them to you. If there are any discrepancies, we've discussed it either here or on AC_catenary's threads. other than some distances varying (some PRR documents says 18' transmission arms, others suggest 13'), its pretty much on target.

[Herc Driver]

My hat's off to you for undertaking this task and pulling it off so well. Those cat towers look great - they really do. Take a moment to sit back and just look at all you've accomplished. You did a lot of research, figured out a way to build them consistently, and are pulling it off making it look great.

It think on it time from time that I'd like to try to do what you're doing - only for my Nscale layout. But I don't know that the results would look as good. Your towers have the detail that I think would be lost in Nscale. Still...when I see the shots of your electric power rolling beneath some very prototypical cat towers, I think how great that would look on my layout, especially since I want to run some GG-1's and HHP-8's on a more regular basis...and someday I just know someone is going to make an E60 (that looks good) for us Nscalers.

But great work - really great work - on those towers.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Alright, I'm bumping this thread. I've taken a LONG break on this project, and i still am to an extent- I'm trying to get my Silverliner III EMUs in operating condition for my local club's train show (its already looking good, my only concern being whether or not it has the power to get up hill on a 4% grade pulling the second car as a dummy (for now, eventually i will power it with another Stanton Drive).

I'm thinking that will be done by tomorrow night, and so the next major project on my table will be getting this catenary back on track. Once the next pair of structures are finished (and the poles/crossbeam are cut, just need to cut the "V" of the K brace and add transmission/signal arms), i can anchor in the "inner" mainline track across the back where i usually take photos. The outermost track i'm not sure so much, as its the only "unbroken" length of wire, and i'm not sure where each section will end. If it doesn't end conveniently passed the outer most catenary poles, then i won't be able to keep the wire pulled tight enough.

[ngauger]

Don't know exactly what you're trying to do - but remember, you can have one "extra" tension pole out past the last pair of poles just to keep the wire tight...

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Don't know exactly what you're trying to do - but remember, you can have one "extra" tension pole out past the last pair of poles just to keep the wire tight...

Well, they'd have to be temporary.

i think i posted a wiring diagram somewhere earlier, but basically, for all the pulloffs on the switches to work right, the "inner" mainline is made of two lengths of wire (the second being REALLY long). the shorter section can actually be installed on the bridges i have up currently. On the other hand, i should probably try and install the extra wires anyway, just because of the way they need to weave through each other.

You know what? i don't know what i'm trying to do either!

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Well, Reposted for clarity, This is the mainline wiring diagram. Each different color is a different segment of Catenary. Except for the "Green" segment, all catenary wires begin and terminate by "dropping" down from a catenary pole to the appropriate level (which is between scale 19' and 22').

The wire section i will be able to hang is the "purple" wire, since i'm building the two catenary poles it anchors to. The other two poles are in the pictures built on the layout already.

Everytime you see lines extend off the "trackplan", they are reaching a pole. You can see why the 4 poles i've been working on are important, since every wire either begins or ends on one of the four poles, except for the blue one, which terminates on the other side.

The only frustrating part is going to be where the Red and Blue wires weave around. The blue wire needs a pull off to get it into allignment. There is a prototype situation for this, (discussed earlier), so i'm just going to have to bite the bullet and also do it that way. The diagram isn't super to scale, but basically the purple wire and the "pull-off" for the blue wire are the same pole, on the upper left corner.

[ngauger]

OK- Now I see... You're right - it is going to be difficult keeping them in alignment wghere they need to be.. Take a few pics and maybe we'll have a few ideas for you.

[Schraddel]

Green_Elite-Cab,
i admire your skills of scratchbuilding catenary poles and to raise catenary wire.
On German layouts catenary is not uncommon. There are two manufacturers which sell catenary compoments.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sommerfeldt.de/">http://www.sommerfeldt.de/</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.viessmann-modell.com/index.php?show=shop&cPath=32&lang=en&cat=c29_Catenary%20H0.html">http://www.viessmann-modell.com/index.p ... %20H0.html</a><!-- m -->
I know that is not exactly what you want, but there may be some interesting parts.
The Sommerfeldt catalogue is online as pdf and there are some parts e.g. prefabricated catenary wire, insulators, hangers etc.
In former times i built catenary on layouts too and i knew about the problems of raising a correct lined overhead wire in relativy tight radii. And to make the pantographs properly work in this curves.

Lutz

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Green_Elite-Cab,
i admire your skills of scratchbuilding catenary poles and to raise catenary wire.
On German layouts catenary is not uncommon. There are two manufacturers which sell catenary compoments.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.sommerfeldt.de/">http://www.sommerfeldt.de/</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.viessmann-modell.com/index.php?show=shop&cPath=32&lang=en&cat=c29_Catenary%20H0.html">http://www.viessmann-modell.com/index.p ... %20H0.html</a><!-- m -->
I know that is not exactly what you want, but there may be some interesting parts.
The Sommerfeldt catalogue is online as pdf and there are some parts e.g. prefabricated catenary wire, insulators, hangers etc.
In former times i built catenary on layouts too and i knew about the problems of raising a correct lined overhead wire in relativy tight radii. And to make the pantographs properly work in this curves.

Lutz

Thank you!

I am interested in how their wires are joined together. I was looking at making a modular catenary set up, and very few people around here have ever attempted such a thing. A lot of the prefabricated wire and insulators can be purchased from manufacturers here in the US that match the Pennsylvania Railroad prototype, but they are expensive, and i think it may be better to produce some of these things customized to match my particular set up.

What should i be concerned with on a tight curve? I think my wire can hold it's shape, but you'd know better than me.

[Amtrak X995]

Hi
let me intruduce in a short way.....
I`am Elmar, and we are four guys, trying to model the NE Corridor and some near Diesel roads beside.
We have an transportable layout with working prr catenary (means, the loco`s pantos really run on wire).
As bass for starting, we use the model memories catenaries poles with high voltage lines, the wires are from vissmann (strong enough, solderable), the pull off poles are from sommerfeldt (by using the poles from the french/belgian catenary system), the nj transit catenary poles are a modified french one.
As insulators we use the model memories ons ( the bigger ones), the smaller ones are from sommerfeldt. The high volage insulators ar green glas pearls ( you can find it in hobby stores for girls), 10 or 12 on top of each other.
The hight from the tracks to the wire are 8.5 cm ( we used for this an modfied marklin x995-those engine has the lowest rise of the pantho, but much enough for the bli gg1)
Please fell free to ask me, what you want, i try to give an answer....
enjoy the pics





and additional a short (old) video
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/3415530/Trai...on_the_NEC

[Sumpter250]

I am interested in how their wires are joined together. I was looking at making a modular catenary set up, and very few people around here have ever attempted such a thing.

Modular, as in small sections of layout?, only with overhead wire? If that is the case, I saw these at Trainfest, in Milwaukee.
   
   

Wish I had taken a detail shot of how the wire was connected at each module boundary.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Hi
let me intruduce in a short way.....
I`am Elmar, and we are four guys, trying to model the NE Corridor and some near Diesel roads beside.

Oh Cool! I've seen that video, and I had tried to find you, but i couldn't seem to track down any contact information. I'm guessing you are modeling the area around Union Interlocking in Rahway New Jersey, which I also wish to model. I've collected many of the Arrow and Silverliner Multiple Units, as well as a few E44 electric freight engines. Still need more GG1s, i wish i had the Conrail units i can see in your picture and video! They've long sold out here. Your layout is right up my Alley!

We have an transportable layout with working prr catenary (means, the loco`s pantos really run on wire).

While on my layout, the catenary will be more or less permanent, A few of us isolated NEC modelers here have been trying to find a way to build a Modular Set-up. I'd definitely love to hear your method for making clean joints, as running with our pantographs up is one of the main goals. Its been difficult trying to establish standards to make the modules match, and we know the catenary has to be perfect to work.

As bass for starting, we use the model memories catenaries poles with high voltage lines, the wires are from vissmann (strong enough, solderable), the pull off poles are from sommerfeldt (by using the poles from the french/belgian catenary system), the nj transit catenary poles are a modified french one.

I've been using Brass structural shapes, PRR catenary plans and a Three Part article by Andy Rubbo, who has also built a nice large section of HO model railroad between Elizabeth New Jersey and elsewhere. Its really an excellent article, and if you don't have them, i can send them to you.

As insulators we use the model memories ones ( the bigger ones), the smaller ones are from sommerfeldt. The high voltage insulators are green glass pearls ( you can find it in hobby stores for girls), 10 or 12 on top of each other.

A company here now sells PRR catenary insulators as a separate detail part. They are made by Tichy Train Group, and they come in a 4 "petticoat" configuration. These were used for the Pull offs on turnouts and such. 3 petticoat versions were used everywhere else, and all you have to do is cut off the bottom petticoat, and you're set. I use the extras for the Signal Transmission arms, which are mounted between the horizontal crossbeam and the Sag Brace.

Actually, for the Transmission lines up top (The High Voltage wires), They are actually not green, but are in fact the same kind of brown as the other insulators, and the standard amount of petticoats is 11.

The height from the tracks to the wire are 8.5 cm ( we used for this an modfied marklin x995-those engine has the lowest rise of the pantho, but much enough for the bli gg1)
Please fell free to ask me, what you want, i try to give an answer....
enjoy the pics

Wire height is always something that concerns me. the Prototype's height was 21 feet off the top of the rail (though it can vary from 19 feet in low areas to VERY high in some yards). Converting it down to centimeters, that's about 7.35 CM, and that's where I'm THOUGHT i was going to be building my wire at. However, in practice, the pantographs don't seem nearly as extended as they do in the photographs, so i''m willing to bet that your 8.5 CM height is much better appearance wise. I'll have to figure out something there. I have a couple wood blocks I'm using to test wire height.

As it turns out, Bachmann's Amtrak HHP-8 electric has a perfect height of 21 feet off the rails with it's pantographs extended, which is probably what will keep my wires hanging low. It frustrates me, since the pantographs on all my other electrics seem almost folded at that height.

Actually, i am curious, Are Scharfenberg couplers readily available over there? I've been searching for operating versions of that MU coupler, but they do not sell anything like it in the US. I've heard that a company called Signalmeister Modellbau carries them, but i'm not sure how to order from them. here is a link- <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.signalmeister.at/cms/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=63&lang=en">http://www.signalmeister.at/cms/index.p ... 63&lang=en</a><!-- m -->


Here is a Photo of some of Andy Rubbo's Catenary with some of my E44A Electrics underneath. My catenary is built to just about the same specifications, with a little different methods of construction. Photos of my progress are all through this thread!

Thanks for your assistance! I would love to see more of your NEC set up!