Input on a "Temporary" Shelf Track Plan

[Brakie]

Mmm - looks a little bit on the track heavy side. I guess it really depends on what you are trying to model on your temporary layout.

How about something with fewer turnouts and more scenery? Here is e.g. a quick sketch of a layout somewhat inspired by Bill Dixon's Tymesaver on Carl Arendt's Micro Layouts site (in scrapbook 53: http://www.carendt.us/scrapbook/page53/index.html):



In the drawing above, green cars are inbound cars, orange cars are cars to be picked up, blue cars are cars to be left where they are or re-spotted after switching. Engine is portrayed by a GP40-2 in the drawing - I don't have any steam engines in my program car library.

Might give you some more ideas about what kind of things you want on your layout (and what kind of things you don't want on your layout, too)

Smile,
Stein

Question..Why would you want to block the only run around track?

Think the owners of that warehouse is going to be happy every time you move their cars?

I think they would have some words for your freight agent along this line..

Sorry,but due to the constant moving of our cars we decided we will ship and recieve by truck.

[steinjr]

Mmm - looks a little bit on the track heavy side. I guess it really depends on what you are trying to model on your temporary layout.

How about something with fewer turnouts and more scenery? Here is e.g. a quick sketch of a layout somewhat inspired by Bill Dixon's Tymesaver on Carl Arendt's Micro Layouts site (in scrapbook 53: http://www.carendt.us/scrapbook/page53/index.html):



In the drawing above, green cars are inbound cars, orange cars are cars to be picked up, blue cars are cars to be left where they are or re-spotted after switching. Engine is portrayed by a GP40-2 in the drawing - I don't have any steam engines in my program car library.

Might give you some more ideas about what kind of things you want on your layout (and what kind of things you don't want on your layout, too)

Smile,
Stein

Question..Why would you want to block the only run around track?

Think the owners of that warehouse is going to be happy every time you move their cars?

I think they would have some words for your freight agent along this line..

Sorry,but due to the constant moving of our cars we decided we will ship and recieve by truck.

Why I drew it like that? Because I tried to stay within a plan depth of 7", which is not all that deep, using no 6 turnouts only. Some compromises had to be made to make stuff fit within those parameters. So I made some compromises.

By all means - feel totally free to draw a better plan for Fluesheet. I am very sure it can be done. The plan provided by Jack e..g looks very good to me as a general switching plan, and illustrates beautifully that adding just a tiny bit of depth (a couple of inches) and also using other turnouts than straight no 6 turnouts can create a far more interesting plan.

Oh - and the little people on my layout do as I tell them - I am the benevolent but absolute dictator of my own little world <evil laugh> ....

Smile,
Stein

[shortliner]

Oh dear, Stein - What can I say! :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: (I'm blushing!) It was only after I posted it - that I realised it was origionally drawn by me 10 years ago - how time flies. BTW can anyone tell me why I can only see the lefthand part of the plan - although it does print out properly.

[Brakie]

Stein,I am not to good at computer drawing so,I will explain.

Here's what I would do.I would simply place the run around between the rip track and the mineral transloading track.This should make the warehouse owners change their minds about using trucks instead of rail.

[shortliner]

This one - adapted from an N gauge one by Mike Fischer works well as a small switching layout

This has got me scratching my head. I like that all the track isn't parallel. I may have a little wiggle room on the left side, if even only a slight divergence from parallel. I am still studying what your plan provides operationally - it's apparently obvious to Stein!

Learning,

Matt

Matt - one advantage is that ALL the required trackage is within the switching area - it doesn't need a "tacked on" fiddle yard, as all the inbound/ outbound cars start/finish on the interchange track at the front, bringing in 3 cars distributing them and then collecting 3 outbound cars and putting them on the interchange (especially if you decide to put them in a specific order) will keep you busy for an hour+. Also you need to use the runround to get the loco on the right end of the cars to position - the running about all takes time. Using ground throws for the switches, a bamboo skewer for uncoupling, and allowing for pumping up the air, adds to the time that a switching session lasts. I use Peco switches and the other end of my uncoupling stick has a tube that fits over the "nub" on the tiebar, and allows my yardman to throw the switches. Take a look at these and see how long switching moves take in the real world
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And some model switching with links on the right side to more
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If you treat the cars on the interchange at the start of the session, when you come "on shift" (although they were really the ones you left there at the end of your previous "shift")they were dropped off "overnight" by a Westbound mainline freight train. Your job is to deliver them and make up an Eastbound set which will be picked up whilst you are at beans. Once the Eastbound cars are on the interchange track you can go eat, so run the loco back down to near Foxy Ladys works, and go refuel yourself and the crew at Ma Blakeys Eatin' house, and have a cup of coffee. When you're finiished, you'll find that the Eastbound mainline freight has dropped some cars off for you to deliver,(you can pull those you put on the interchange and replace with others if you like to see different cars on the layout) and then you position the cars for the Westbound overnight, and book off shift. A simple layout with a huge amount of operating potential.
If you have spare room, you could extend the layout left by about 15",run the teamtrack into the Foxy Lady building, put in a road crossing the track to the left of Foxy Lady and ACME, and add a short length of track to the centre track where you leave the engine while you go for chow. You could bring it down to your 7" width by having all the industries along the back as photoflats on the backscene

[Brakie]

That is one sweet ISL..I really like it.

[steinjr]

Stein,I am not to good at computer drawing so,I will explain.

Here's what I would do.I would simply place the run around between the rip track and the mineral transloading track.This should make the warehouse owners change their minds about using trucks instead of rail.

You mean like this:



Or this?



Top one spares the team track area, but cuts down on the work space on the middle track on the right - i.e. the room for leaving inbound cars while picking up the outbound cars.

Bottom one essentially eliminates the team track area (or has the same issue as the warehouse runaround - cars at the team track has to be pulled before you can do a runaround move), but spares the storage space.

Both of the latter work just fine, but they all leave a layout that visually will be full of tracks right down to the front edge of the layout.

All three variants will work, and neither of them is inherently superior to the others - they just take the hit in different ways :-)

Smile,
Stein

[Brakie]

Stein,I was thinking more like the top one and it does look more prototypical...That leaves the team track in place...The only thing that run around serves is the rip track so it would probably see little service.

[Fluesheet]

Thanks to all three of you for the excellent feedback.

I started putzing around with my interpretation of Stein's first plan, but think I will pause said putzing for a few days to digest this information and do some mental switching exercises based on all of the examples and have a chance to view the videos.

Shortliner, is the right "crossover" in your plan a crossover or a slip switch (I'm assuming the left crossover is just that - a crossover)?

Thanks,
Matt

[steinjr]

Shortliner, is the right "crossover" in your plan a crossover or a slip switch (I'm assuming the left crossover is just that - a crossover)?

Both are plain crossovers. Left one is a short crossover, right one a long crossover.

That track that curve down and come back across the main track is an elegant construction that really says "tight corners".

Btw - since you have 8 feet of space, and Jack's plan is 6.5 feet, add another foot on the left and another half a foot on the right.

Gives you a little room to move a few cars at a time through the choke point of the plan - the main to the left of the turnouts.

Smile,
Stein

[shortliner]

Yup - Stein is quite right - both are "standard "PECO diamond crossovers, one short and one long
a couple of photos using boxes as building mock-ups

[Fluesheet]

shortliner or Stein,

First, I see my crossover question was somewhat redundant, as the answer was clearly labeled on the plan!

Another question - what benefit does the long crossover provide? It appears that Dangle could be served by a turnout. Are there geometry or operational benefits that I'm not seeing, does the shorter "pull" from the interchange to Dangle justify it, or is it (as Stein seemed to imply) an aesthetic choice?

Shortliner, I enjoyed the videos - excepting the guy that had the shakes! One of the photographers (Jeromey?) was especially good at composition and showcasing small time railroading scenes.

I have about 40" additional to the left of my shelf that can be used for staging, though that won't be a priority. This is the end that the larger layout, when built, will access the shelf layout to drop off cars for inspection and deliver supplies to my workbench.

Off to Cadrail to try some ideas - I'm still sticking with #6 turnouts, but am intrigued by the crossovers.

Matt

[steinjr]

Another question - what benefit does the long crossover provide? It appears that Dangle could be served by a turnout. Are there geometry or operational benefits that I'm not seeing, does the shorter "pull" from the interchange to Dangle justify it, or is it (as Stein seemed to imply) an aesthetic choice?

Well, both of those. It will also be quite a bit easier to couple and uncouple the car, since the engine and the car will be on a straight line if you use the crossing, while the engine-car combo will have the engine in a curve if you just use the no 6 turnout. Depending on how long that spur is, relative to the engine+car combo, of course.

But the main thing is that it looks cool - it really says "crowded industrial/city area" when tracks go off to one side and then cross back over the main track to get into a spot.

Grin,
Stein

[shortliner]

Yes, once again Stein is absolutely right, The "go right to turn left" trick was used by many railroads where there wasn't a lot of room, especially in crowded urban areas and to avoid "sideswiping" a building. it can also make the turn a little easier with a better approach angle. In this case, using Kadees, they don't like coupling when the stock and loco aren't lined up, and this does give a longer "straight" approach. It also "complicates" the trackplan slightly, which adds interest and makes it "different", at least in my opinion. If you have the room to allow some of the track to be inset in a road or alleyway that also adds to the urban feel. Remeber that in many cases the railroad didn't start out with a nice blank area as we do - they had to fit the tracks into an area that was already crowded with industrial buildings and customers - sometimes it is interesting to look at planning the building positions first, and then wiggling the track about to fit in, just as the railroads did it. If you watch an articulated lorry reverse into a restricted space you will frequently see that the driver will do a very similar manoeuver to get the rear end into a narrow opening or alleyway between two buildings

[foulrift]

Matt- when Stein was helping me with my layout design,I started with a 6' long layout. I soon found out that no matter how the track was configured it was too confining. I found that I was able to add a full 2' to one side and the results were amazing.Not only was I able to do more with the track plan but I was able to add a couple of more buildings to increase the switching possibilities. Two additional things greatly helped-I used Peco code100 small radius turnouts although I know that many others prefer to use a smaller rail size and I am using a small switcher,in my case a SW7.
Anyway-good luck with your plan.
Bob