Need a yard plan got any good ideas?

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

Well I acquired some well needed space here in the subterranean empire for a well needed yard. The tentative yard space is 30" wide x 12' long and actually resides right over the top of my deck where I am typing this, yes we are squeezing every available inch of space out of the train room. It will have a section at the one end 30"W x 36"L that may house a transfer table (being as Walthers keeps dropping the price) and car shops right behind my engine facility. This space will be ahead of the yard space so don't consider that into what ever
I was thinking about making it a double end rather then stub end yard as I want to continue onto the next wall which will be a narrower section of shelf so to speak housing double or single track I haven't decided yet and scenery and a few structures. Then tie it all into the main section of the layout.

So rather then just start throwing down turnouts and connecting them with flex track my usual method of madness I though why not try something new and different and actually follow a track plan. Problem is I haven't really found anything yet so I'm turning to my brethren for help. Ok stop laughing guys
and give me your ideas on what might work in this space

Thanks

[TrainNut]

You might be able to get some ideas from here...
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.tslrr.com/mfjhome.htm">http://www.tslrr.com/mfjhome.htm</a><!-- m -->

And, especially from here...
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html">http://www.housatonicrr.com/yard_des.html</a><!-- m -->

[ocalicreek]

First thing that came to my mind was George Selios' recent yard addition to the F&SM. MR published a story on it a couple years ago now, I guess. I think it is called 'Fillmore Yard' in honor of Frank Ellison. It's basically a staging area but in true F&SM fashion George decked it out in fantastic urban scenery.

Galen

[steinjr]

http://mrsvc.blogspot.com/2010/02/does-t...k-fat.html

It really depends on what you want your yard to be able to do - one operator or several, typical train lengths, typical number of trains arriving or departing per session, era and type of location - steam or diesel engine service facilities or not, cabeese or not, freight or passenger cars, holding yard or classification yard or industry support yard or coal marshalling yard or carfloat yard or produce yard or coach yard or a crew/engine change yard or any of the many other types of locations called yard by a railroad, whether you want your yard to have facilities like a weight track or a RIP track or whatever.

A great place for a lot of information about yards and how to model them is Kalmbach's "The model railroader's guide to freight yards" (http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12248.html) - shows various yards and yard funcitons, discusses different types of yard ladders and all those things.

Kalmbach also has a downloadable PDF with articles by John Armstrong on hos yards work and how to design model railroad yards: http://www.kalmbachstore.com/mrpdf035.html

Craig Bisgeier's list of "10 commendments of yard design" is also good reading - but should be read after reading something like the book above - since his commandments mostly deal with how to make yards efficient (ie fast) on layouts where the yard often becomes a chokepoint, with several operators sitting or standing around waiting for the yard to make up their next train so they can get back on the road.

Yards tend to become chokepoints because run lengths on most layouts is way more heavily compressed than yard lengths, relative to train length - if we want to run 20 car trains, our yard tracks need to be long enough for 20 cars. But few people can afford to have 50 or 100 train lengths between two towns on their layout. So Craigs rules, if applied mechanically to a smaller or modest sized layout with few operators, might result in a yard that gets sized for more traffic than it ever will receive.

Smile,
Stein

[steinjr]

Mmm - the suggestion of those two books was not meant to cut off all discussion - I just wanted to point out that it probably would be smart to give some more details about what functions you want for your yard, to allow some discussion about what to fit into your yard area.

Here is a link to an older thread (over on the Kalmbach trains.com forums) where the creation of an 11.5 foot long and 30" yard is discussed (towards the bottom of the page) - it has a lot of interesting comments on the thought processes the layout owner (trainnut1250) went through when he designed his Willoughby yard: http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/t/1529...ageIndex=3

Smile,
Stein

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

Well I appreciate the links but I guess I am trying to get as much out of the space as possible if that makes sense. Staging of trains of course not that I am a big operations guys but it's nice to just have different trains made up and ready to run. I like the idea of a double ended yard as it simplifies a lot. I need to consider a lead in track so I can come in off the main and not foul up the line for any other trains that may be headed my way. I am not a rivet counter but would like to make it as realistic as possible.

[BR60103]

There aren't a great many variations in a straight yard. What would be more important: maximize track length or keep track lengths the same? Do you have control of where the tracks come into the yard? and how many?
The way to make the track lengths the same in a single-ended yard is a compound ladder: incoming track splits then each of those tracks splits, then split again (like a hump yard).
A double-ended yard could have that feature twice, or you could have a diagonal ladder going in and another diagonal ladder with the same hand switches going out. (one end is going to have a big reverse curve.) If you use different handed switches at each end you will have tracks of different lengths which may be acceptable or even desirable for your operating pattern (one long trains, some middling length, and a few shorties.)

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

Well I think maximizing track length is one of my main concerns I know what your saying about spiting the track ladder so to speak to get as many yard tracks as possible. I intend to have one lead in track coming in off the main and a ready track if you will that will run parallel to the main so a train will come in off the main and make it's switching moves from there. I visited a layout a few weeks a go during an operating session and helped out working the one yard with the layout builder. On several occasions we had to use the main line to build trains or to make switching moves. Not really a problem for his railroad as they run schedules and train orders etc. so they knew when a train was due in at that particular yard so they would have time to clear the main. I am not that sophisticated or experienced in the ways of operation so I would feel much better building the yard they way I mentioned. I'll just have to do some more Google image searching.

[steinjr]

Not sure I totally grasp what you want to do with your yard.

On one hand you mention having staging space for trains ready to go. One factor here is whether you want to run trains of about the same train length, or a mix of long and short trains.

On the other hand you mention being able to switch the yard without fouling the main. That implies that there will be quite a bit of traffic on your main - and that you will have to make a decision on whether the yard lead also will have to fit into the 12-foot length - giving you a longest body track of 6 feet and a yard lead of 6 feet within that scene.

Just for illustration's sake - here are three very plain yards - none with a dedicated yard lead - if you want a yard lead within the 12 feet, your body tracks will be shorter:



Engine and cars shown is a GP40 and 40-foot cars - ie not particularily long equipment. Turnouts used are Peco mediums - you can use #4s, which will gain you a little more space, but not a huge amount of space.

The double ended pyramid style yard gives some longer tracks and some shorter tracks. The diamond shapes makes all tracks about the same length. The diamond style yard is more flexible for staging, since any track can take any train.

In contrast - if you compare the single ended yard with the double ended - you lose a lot of yard capacity by having a double ended yard. Question is - what is the gain for you by having a double ended yard?

You mention double ended simplifying things. Not sure I understand why. A double ended yard is very nice if you will be having two yard operators, so one works the yard from one side and the other from the other side - but the yard ladders eats a lot of length.

You can also play other games with the yard ladder - a #6 turnout on a #5 angle, a compound ladder, a pinwheel ladder coming off a curve and quite a few other things.

But the first thing you need to do is to figure out expected train lengths and number of trains handled at any time, whether you need to fit in a dedicated yard lead within the 12 feet of length (or whether that can run out of the scene to the right or left), whether you really need a double ended yard and so on and so forth.

And for tips and hints about those things, that downloadable PDF by John Armstrong is really great - because he shows you the options very clearly, letting you make your own choices about what to do.

Smile,
Stein

[steinjr]

Here is another illustration for this thread - the difference made in yard body track lengths by using a compound ladder rather than a straight ladder:



The straight ladder uses one left hand turnout (to get off the main), and 6 right hand turnouts to turn into the seven body tracks.

The compound ladder starts out with two left hand turnouts, and then uses 5 right hand turnouts to turn into the seven body tracks.

There are quite a few other ways to do yard ladders too. But I think we have illustrations of the most common types of ladders now.

Up to you what you are looking for in number of tracks, train lengths, operating patterns, whether yard lead has to fit into the 12 foot length and so on and so forth.

Smile,
Stein

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

Stein
I have several plans in my head what I am thinking about doing I just have to take the time to calculate them out and put them in CAD. One of which was a variant of what you just displayed but have tow stub end yards for east and west bound operations respectively in that case I would have to have the lead in tracks and the main in the center of the bench work rather then favor the back/wall side which would give me a larger radius curve to work with at both ends leading into and out of the yard.

Thanks for the illustrations I have to get my butt in gear tomorrow after yard clean up and pick up my plywood for my bench work and spend some time out on the table saw. Once the bench work is up it usually motivates me to get my butt in gear.

Thanks again

[Gary S]

Stein, I also appreciate the diagrams. Thanks!

[BR60103]

If you want both directions, you could use the empty space and put a rotated version of the yard in it. You could get a two of the first yard in (drop the last track) or make through tracks by running the last track into the yard lead for the other yard.
(Sorry, no illustration software)

[scubadude]

Coming in kind of late....here is a double-ended yard Squidbait came up for me sometime ago on the old Gauge. It originated from a John Armstrong plan. Squid tweaked it and added the roundhouse. This is what I plan to use. I stole it fair and square, you may find it helpful...

[Allegheny2-6-6-6]

Richard,

Boy you got inside my head on that one, spot on what I had planned to put down on paper with a few minor exceptions reverse it and in place of the roundhouse and T/T I planned on a transfer table in conjunction with several back shop structures the lead in track of which would be coming off one leg of a curved turnout and the only other change was that i envisioned a few more double ended track lengths but that many will more then likely be fine.Of course it would have originally come from the mind of John Allen who else.

Thanks for coming in late you win the cigar......