Vernon, LA county

[faraway]

While browsing pictures of LAJ CF-7 I found some from Vernon. I did not know what/where Vernon is and looked it up.

What Google Maps displayed is very interesting. There are a lot of tracks at the back of industries. The buildings in that area are very dense with very little space between two buildings. There are also some small yards or staging tracks close to the industry. ATSF has a nice distribution center in that area (E. Vernon Ave). But there are also main lines with bridges etc.
Are there some more sources in the internet to get more information about railroads in Vernon?

http://maps.google.de/maps?q=vernon+cali...27466&z=16

[faraway]

I did find a a nice page in the web http://www.californiatrains.com/vernon.html

This short introduction

" Vernon, CA ... located east of downtown Los Angeles, this industrial district area of Los Angeles County is the location of BNSF's Hobart intermodal yard & Malabar freight yard. Also located in Vernon is the Los Angeles Junction Railroad's main yard and the majority of the customer's they serve."

explains why Vernon is so busy with tracks. I will further investigate and have an eye on it. It might be a prototype that can serve as an example for a layout. They have great tracks with all kind of track development we love so much running between the industry.

[Russ Bellinis]

Vernon was historically the "meat packers" district in Los Angeles, just as the area to the northwest between Vernon and Los Angeles Union Station around Olympic Blvd is the "produce district." Railroad operations in the produce district were done primarily by the S.P. while I think the operations in Vernon were done by the Santa Fe or the LAJ. The LAJ operates completely within the neighboring cities of Vernon and City of Commerce. I think the entire LAJ is contained within an area of about 10 miles by 10 miles. Most of the meat packers are gone now. I think Farmer John is the only packing house continuing to butcher live stock in the area. Most of the other meat packers that are still in business have moved farther out into the country. I think some meat packers receive sides of beef, dressed hogs, or chicken and either cut it up and package it for distribution or process the meat into hot dogs or sausage. Most of those companies use trucks instead of trains for both receiving dressed meat and shipping out the finished products for distribution.

By the way, their used to be a lot of warehousing in Vernon, but the city is so old that most of the warehouses are small by modern standards. Their used to be a number of grocery chains that had warehouses in Vernon, but most of them are either gone, bought out by larger companies, or have moved out to the areas like Fontana, and Riverside where their is space to build the "monster" warehouse complexes that they need. Recently, Vernon has been attracting various importers, and especially electronics wholesaler's.

[faraway]

Vernon was historically the "meat packers" district in Los Angeles...

Russ, thank you for the explanation. I see, there is a Packer Ave. right in that place. I am most attracted by the trackage one block east north and south of E. 44.th St. There are much more turnouts etc. than usual. The buildings are relative small. They might fit in 1' - 2' on a H0 layout. Most are services by an own track, some with two. There are 3-4 tracks running parallel. Lots of temporary storage and run around possible. Those two blocks are attached with sharp 90° curves on the east and west side. There is a lot of switching. Streetview makes it possible to identify each industry by name.

[faraway]

I continued thinking about Vernon and a possible layout derived from Vernon. This draft of a freelance layout based on the Vernon situation came to my mind.



It is based on the tracks between E. 44th St and E. Vernon Ave. That are unusual rich tracks with a lot of served industries. The tracks are connected at both end with some interesting curves. The two streets would be off the layout. Only one or two North-South crossing streets will be on the layout (e.g. State St) and some more on the left and right end. The length could be up to 12' (4m)and 2' (0,6m) wide (same as current layout). The buildings would be of the "white box style" for the present but there might be a brick based alternative for the past when the area was the meat packer area as Russ lines out. The four track staging yard is unchanged on the other side of the room.

[torikoos]

I continued thinking about Vernon and a possible layout derived from Vernon. This draft of a freelance layout based on the Vernon situation came to my mind.



It is based on the tracks between E. 44th St and E. Vernon Ave. That are unusual rich tracks with a lot of served industries. The tracks are connected at both end with some interesting curves. The two streets would be off the layout. Only one or two North-South crossing streets will be on the layout (e.g. State St) and some more on the left and right end. The length could be up to 12' (4m)and 2' (0,6m) wide (same as current layout). The buildings would be of the "white box style" for the present but there might be a brick based alternative for the past when the area was the meat packer area as Russ lines out. The four track staging yard is unchanged on the other side of the room.

How are you getting on with your Vernon plans, or have things changed ?

Cheers!

Koos

[faraway]

... How are you getting on with your Vernon plans, or have things changed ? ...

I have drifted quite a bit when I discovered the new Atlas Genset is available in PHL colors and an Athern SD40 in PHL colors is also available. At the same time I decided to rework the north side staging yard without scenery into a yard with scenery. So I am currently busy creating something that looks like an harbor on the north side. When that has completed I will come back to the south side of the room and rework the old part.

[Brakie]

That would be a good ISL for me since one of my favorite type of cars is reefers.

[faraway]

That would be a good ISL for me since one of my favorite type of cars is reefers.

Sure it will be. I am working / thinking on the right balance of prototypical vs. freelance. The limited space makes some close to prototype planning not very practical because they lack good operation. While the maximum operation at a given space is far away from the prototype.
One thing to make that possible seams to be to ignore the physical location of "functional units". With "functional units" I mean some industry, a yard etc. Those units should be placed on the layout as they best fit in the space and permit useful interconnection for operation. Within a functional unit typical attributes of the prototype should be found.
An example is the new north yard. It is build by two units, the warehouse at the pier and the small yard. Both units are required for operation and had to be placed parallel due to space constrains (4 meter * 0,3 meter). But the warehouse has some similarities with a prototype in San Pedro and the yard is simple and flat like the prototype in the LA harbor. The operation permits creation and handling of in and outbound trains in the yard and servicing the pier from the yard.

btw. I did learn that simple track plans permitting prototype alike fast switching from one side without unnecessary runarounds are fun to play with. The south yard will get simpler trackage as it has today. The current zig-zag looks interesting but is boring to operate. We had some good discussions on that topic here some month ago.

[Brakie]

Reinhard,One of the things I wanted to do is have a ISL that is made up of orange producers and maybe a ice house for the reefers.My motive power would either be a Santa Fe Zebra stripe Alco switcher,RS1 or Baldwin.Cars would be Santa Fe 40' reefers.

My first locomotive choice would be a Santa Fe 1950 class 2-8-0.

[faraway]

Reinhard,One of the things I wanted to do is have a ISL that is made up of orange producers and maybe a ice house for the reefers.My motive power would either be a Santa Fe Zebra stripe Alco switcher,RS1 or Baldwin.Cars would be Santa Fe 40' reefers.

My first locomotive choice would be a Santa Fe 1950 class 2-8-0.

I think the LAJ has been a longtime ALCO railroad. They did love their S2 ( http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-l/lajr02gda.jpg ) until they have been forced into the CF-7 adventure. I think RS1 is somewhat difficult. I understood AT&SF did use RS1 exclusive for passenger train switching. May be a very short time in SoCal but mainly in Chicago.
I have no information what steam has been used prior to that diesel. I guess max. 0-6-0 to master the extreme tight curves in Vernon.
The next challenge is "how did Vernon" look at that time? Google is not helpful to explore Vernon 1950 and earlier. The current buildings are the second generation. You need the first generation build for the packaging industry. Do you have a local source with lots of historical photos?
May be Vernon is all about the wrong place for you? Currently Vernon has some cold storage that is used for fruits (may be orange). But the historic purpose of Vernon was meat packaging. I do not know if they did also process fruits at that time.

May be Russ can step in and add some comments?

[MountainMan]

Pretty impressive!

[Brakie]

Reinhard,One of the things I wanted to do is have a ISL that is made up of orange producers and maybe a ice house for the reefers.My motive power would either be a Santa Fe Zebra stripe Alco switcher,RS1 or Baldwin.Cars would be Santa Fe 40' reefers.

My first locomotive choice would be a Santa Fe 1950 class 2-8-0.

I think the LAJ has been a longtime ALCO railroad. They did love their S2 ( http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-l/lajr02gda.jpg ) until they have been forced into the CF-7 adventure. I think RS1 is somewhat difficult. I understood AT&SF did use RS1 exclusive for passenger train switching. May be a very short time in SoCal but mainly in Chicago.
I have no information what steam has been used prior to that diesel. I guess max. 0-6-0 to master the extreme tight curves in Vernon.
The next challenge is "how did Vernon" look at that time? Google is not helpful to explore Vernon 1950 and earlier. The current buildings are the second generation. You need the first generation build for the packaging industry. Do you have a local source with lots of historical photos?
May be Vernon is all about the wrong place for you? Currently Vernon has some cold storage that is used for fruits (may be orange). But the historic purpose of Vernon was meat packaging. I do not know if they did also process fruits at that time.

May be Russ can step in and add some comments?

Reinhard,Actually it would be freelance based loosely on Santa Fe's operation in the orange industry-deliver empty reefers,pull loaded reefers,switch the ice house and clean out track etc.

[lajry]

Faraway
Here is the all time locomotive roster for the LAJ - from original steam thru diesels up til BNSF. They did use Santa Fe 0-6-0s during the steam era. After the ALCOs left they used CF7s out of the Santa Fe LA pool until they got their own in '86. This is from the Warbonnet 10/03 issue.

   

[faraway]

Faraway Here is the all time locomotive roster for the LAJ ...

Thank you. Very valuable information. I did not know anything about the pre-S2 area.
You might want to add at the bottom a GP30U and two GP35U since 2009. They came in to take over from the CF-7 and work together with the MK1200. The CF-7 are out of service since some weeks.