Designing My HO-Scale Room Layout

[shortliner]

I thought you might be interested in this post:

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But be aware that in O or On30 you aren't going to get a lot on each board :?

[ocalicreek]

One question I have for you Galen, is that why do you keep referring to my Ho-scale Miami Layout, that is just a " get something done" layout that will still get worked on but it was mostly just so I could say I had built something and is mainly a practice layout. The only reason I chose Miami is because that is what Lance Mindheim and CNW1961 did and so I could get an idea of what my layout would be like before I built it.

I keep referring to the layout since that's what you first brought to the forum, I guess. If it's just a practice layout, then that's okay. But why spend so much time and energy (and money) on something that doesn't further your dream? Also, I admit to admiring the fantastic modeling work of so many others and even copying their ideas outright. But if you're trying to replicate or copy such prototype-inspired layouts, why not turn to the prototype for inspiration like they did?

Along these lines, I'm not sure I agree with the whole 'chainsaw' layout idea that is so popular over at the MRH forum. The idea of setting out to build a layout that will ultimately be destroyed (even if componants will be reused), for the sake of 'practice', seems a little silly to me. Silly in a 'fool and his money are soon parted' kind of way. But I guess if you have the resources and the time, and are unsure of your talent, a practice layout is not a bad thing. It can probably be a good thing. My first layouts ended up as spare parts for later layouts, but more in a morphing/changing sort of way than a rip it out and start all over or discard completely kind of way.

I hope you don't think I'm picking on you. I'm glad you're here at The Gauge and I'm looking forward to seeing your work no matter what creative direction you choose.

Galen

[Justinmiller171]

I didn't really mean that It was a "throw-away" layout when I said it was a practice layout, it was more of a "learning layout", one that I would build till it is completed and use it to practice my skills, but still keep it. I just get discouraged every time I go out to the layout and see just track on plywood, and then realizing that I still have to get all of the freight cars, the engine, and do at-least most of the scenery. I have already decided that I will only be building a few buildings and leaving the rest as "Mock-ups".

I did recently visit Lance Mindheim's site and discovered he is writing a book on building a small switching layout, this should get me to finish building my Miami layout, but I only have a couple of months to work on it since the weather will be getting bad pretty soon so that's why I will be building a layout in my room.

[P5se Camelback]

I hope you don't think I'm picking on you. I'm glad you're here at The Gauge and I'm looking forward to seeing your work no matter what creative direction you choose. -- Galen

Justin ...

I think that Galen is communicating to you what many of us "older" guys have been thinking but not coming right out and saying. Well, at least he has expressed the way I have been feeling about the way you seem to "flit from one project, one scale, one theme to another." (Leave it to the Clergyman to find a way to say what needed to be said in a very nice and supportive way ... Thanks, Galen!)

I think that all of the "old salts" here at "Big Blue at The-Gauge" (and I would include myself in that group, as an "older" guy) want to be supportive to the new guys, the younger guys and "help them along," as you discover your way in the hobby. No one here is picking on you ... I'm sure we all want the enjoyment of seeing your skill level grow as you build things for your layout, in whatever scale, whatever theme you finally decide on.

The really cool thing about a forum like this one is that with so many members that have very accomplished modeling skills, everyone is eager to help those who ask, "How did you do that?!!" In fact, it's a confidence builder to the one of whom the question is asked! But all are humble ... none are braggarts!

When I first found this awesome place back around the start of the year, I didn't post very much, but rather read everything I could. I went back and read some mighty long threads from the very beginning to bring myself "up to date," to get to know "the players," so to speak. I kept reading until there were no more little red disks to the left of thread titles. When I started to post, I initiated one thread. It was a thread to detail out some cheap RTR cabooses. I still have that project to finish ... after the Challenge. But those two things are my focus here. When they are complete, I then start something else.

Justin, I think what Galen, and I, and possibly others hope is for you to find a focus ... and then pursue it. It is good to dream ... we all do that! But then you must pull back to what is doable today, with today's space and today's funds and today's modeling skills. You spoke once of John Allen, my early model railroading HERO! He started with a small layout ... very small. He built it to a "complete-looking" state. He used it to photograph ads for Varney Models ... FULL PAGE photos that graced the rear cover of Model Railroader! I'm sure that a basement-sized railroad was his big "Dream Layout," but he was focused, and he kept going on the little layout, and then, when the time was right, he incorporated it in the larger one.

Justin, you are young. You have much to learn and many years in front of you to learn it. Take your time. This is a hobby, an activity to relax with. It isn't a race to see who can finish their layout first! Some of these guys have twice as many years of working on their layouts as you are old. They are in no hurry. They are enjoying themselves and their hobby.

You have arrived here at the most incredible model railroad forum on the Internet, a place where you have the opportunity to learn from some highly skilled model railroaders. We are all here to help if you need us ... just focus ... and ask if you need help!

[Justinmiller171]

Thanks for the Reality Check Bil, One of the problem younger Model Railroaders like me have is that we are not only overly ambitious, but whenever we see a really neat layout we always think to ourselves "I wanna do a layout Just like that!", And off we go making another layout design!

I guess what I need to do is take a week or two off from track-planning and clear my head.

Anyways thanks for setting me "On the Right-Track" guys!

[Justinmiller171]

Okay, Its been about 5 days since I made my last post and I have had awhile to clear my head and think of a layout that I can Realistically build.

Looking through some of my Model railroader magazines, A layout really caught my eye, it was MRR's 75th Anniversary layout, the Milwaukee Road Beer Line, I really like the feel of the layout, It is set in one of my favorite time Periods(The 1940's), Many Walther's structures are based on Prototypes in the Area, and best of all, the layout feels like it is much larger than it really is, I will be building it in the J configuration which fits exactly in my room. Now this is only an Idea, but it is one of the best plans that I found that I could build in a reasonable amount of time. The layout is designed to be built sectionaly and is made up of two 2x4s and two 2x8s, the 2x4 can be hooked together to make a continuous running layout which is great because that way I can get trains running in a good amount of time.

The articles on building the layout are featured in the Jan-May 2009 issues of Model Railroader if any one is interested.

[steinjr]

Okay, Its been about 5 days since I made my last post and I have had awhile to clear my head and think of a layout that I can Realistically build.

Looking through some of my Model railroader magazines, A layout really caught my eye, it was MRR's 75th Anniversary layout, the Milwaukee Road Beer Line, I really like the feel of the layout, It is set in one of my favorite time Periods(The 1940's), Many Walther's structures are based on Prototypes in the Area, and best of all, the layout feels like it is much larger than it really is, I will be building it in the J configuration which fits exactly in my room. Now this is only an Idea, but it is one of the best plans that I found that I could build in a reasonable amount of time. The layout is designed to be built sectionaly and is made up of two 2x4s and two 2x8s, the 2x4 can be hooked together to make a continuous running layout which is great because that way I can get trains running in a good amount of time.

Mmm - had a look at the J configuration. That one (at least on the modelrailroader.com web page) takes 10 x 14 feet, and presumes access from the outside of the J-shape (as if the layout was folded around an indentation sticking into the room, instead of being pushed back into a corner). Not necessarily all that optimal for your room.

Sectional might be smart for a layout that might have to be moved. No particular reason for why you need to build a modular layout (where any two sections can be lined up, since the interfaces between all sections are the same).

If you want really want to modular, find a club that does modular, and do a section according to their standards.

Picture from FREMO module meet at Airplane Museum at Gardermoen, Norway:


More pics here: http://www.autoclassic.no/amjk/2007%20Gardermoen.htm

If what you want simply is a small shelf switching layout, then just draw up a plan for a small switching layout and go at it. Or just grab some track plan from Carl Arendt's micro layouts site or something.

But is that what you want? Not much point in starting on two different small H0 scale urban shelf switching layouts (one in your room and one in your spider room), if that is not what you want to build.

E.g. if what you really want is lumber trains pulled by geared steam locomotives through the forests of Northern California, it seems counterproductive to do one layout based on modern urban Miami and another on 1940s urban Milwaukee.

Another possible approach is to focus on the modeling of structures and trains, and not so much on the running trains. Have a look at a couple of modules Bob Boudroux made - partly for the sheer joy of making models, and partly to have a subject for professional quality photographs: http://sites.google.com/site/fundynorthe...nd-modules

As always, your layout, your decisions.

Smile,
Stein

[Justinmiller171]

Mmm - had a look at the J configuration. That one (at least on the modelrailroader.com web page) takes 10 x 14 feet, and presumes access from the outside of the J-shape (as if the layout was folded around an indentation sticking into the room, instead of being pushed back into a corner). Not necessarily all that optimal for your room.

Their version is made to be operated from the outside because it works better that way, but it still works fine operating from the inside.

But is that what you want? Not much point in starting on two different small H0 scale urban shelf switching layouts (one in your room and one in your spider room), if that is not what you want to build.

E.g. if what you really want is lumber trains pulled by geared steam locomotives through the forests of Northern California, it seems counterproductive to do one layout based on modern urban Miami and another on 1940s urban Milwaukee.

My dream layout would be A logging layout, but In the space that I have it would be better to build a switching layout, I don't "not like switching layouts" its just that I like logging layouts better, and besides my local club lets me run trains on their layout all the time.

If you want really want to modular, find a club that does modular, and do a section according to their standards.

I would go modular, but the nearest modular club is about 3 hours away!

As always, thanks for your help Steinjr!

[steinjr]

My dream layout would be A logging layout, but In the space that I have it would be better to build a switching layout.

So why not make a small shelf switching layout with a logging theme, then?

Having a Shay or Heissler or some such engine hauling logs out from the forest (staging), switching a lumber mill or paper mill or some such place?

Here is a tiny little 9" x 48" (less than one x four foot) H0 scale shelf switching plan for a lumber setting, fromCarl Arendt's sitehttp://www.carendt.us/microplans/pages/r...dex.html#4:



Here is a 2 x 8 foot shelf switching plan with a lumber theme (and more switching opertunities) from Byron Henderson's web page:
http://www.layoutvision.com/gallery/id18.html

Ian Rice's "Small, smart and practical track plans" has a nice point to point shelf switching logging layout with a logging theme: the "linked up logger".

Don't confuse the theme of a layout with it's footprint.


Smile,
Stein

[Justinmiller171]

Thanks Steinjr! I may just do that, but the only reason a logging layout is my dream layout is for the long run of the layout, I will still look into building a logging switching layout though.

[steinjr]

Thanks Steinjr! I may just do that, but the only reason a logging layout is my dream layout is for the long run of the layout, I will still look into building a logging switching layout though.

Perhaps the first thing you ought to do is to make up your mind about what your main goal is.

In this thread it has variously been:
- H0 scale continuous run, a lot of track relative to scenery, a yard, lots of switching for two operators
- On3, scratch built wooden structures, turntable, "more about scenery and photography rather than realistic Operation"
- Scenic realism, more about mainline running than switching, local freight + passenger trains
- On30 Northern California logging layout
- HO scale Industrial switching in urban Milwaukee

If what you really want is lots of scenery, logging locos and longish runs, you could get a fairly longish run by the simple expedient of doing a switchback along two walls.

Start with a track hidden behind some trees along the left wall, representing "the forest", run it along left wall while going downhill, curve around to top wall, go through turnout into a switchback tail.

Then go back left and further downhill from the other end of the turnout, back along the front of the shelf along the left wall, until you end up in a sawmill complex with three-four tracks where the shelf ends at the lower wall.

Scratch build a nice little sawmill, add an enginehouse on a switchback track, and you can have fueling locos as well.

Maybe you also will even be able to hid a part of a mainline behind the sawmill building, with the main track continuing between the two lumber tracks in the upper left corner and disappearing under a bridge or into a tunnel or some such thing.

Rough concept sketch:


Anyways - whatever else you do - try to figure out what *your* goal is.

Smile,
Stein

[P5se Camelback]

Stein is making solid sense, Justin. Locomotives and rolling stock represent, for most of us, a long term investment. Track would also be considered a capital investment. Why would you spend money on track to build a railroad that is something other that what you are interested in? Remember, John Allen built a very small layout that reflected his interests as far as era, motive power and rolling stock was concerned ... then he incorporated that into the larger, basement-sized layout later on, when funds and space permitted.

It makes absolutely no sense to buy a pair of Buicks if you really want a Ferrari! The plan of attack would more likely be to buy a little Fiat, properly maintain it, maybe even throw a couple of minor upgrades on it, all the while saving for the day when you could afford the Ferrari and a nice clean, comfortable garage to park and maintain it in.

The same holds true for a model railroad. I my case I had a plan, a goal ... a northeast Pennsylvania coal hauler. I started by building rolling stock of the era I had chosen. The locomotives I wanted were only available in brass, and then, ony one or two, and they had been offered years before! That's O.K., I saved for motive power and built hoppers and box cars. Still no layout. I finally found one brass Camelback, but didn't have quite enough to purchase it -- so I put money down and made payments monthly until it was mine. Still no layout! Then another Camelbback was located and was purchased the same way. I did no model railroading in college, I was too busy learning, doing "homework" projects and working after class in a part-time draftsman's job. After college, I had an apartment (and some income) and I built a slightly larger version of John Allen's Timesaver (learned how to hand lay track and used turnout kits.)

The story continued, always with the same goal, never buying anything that wouldn't fit the overall scheme (until my little daughter got her GP38-2 -- that she saved her allowance for and bought with her own money -- only then did I buy a couple more modern pieces of rolling stock, that we built together at the kitchen table, so Mom could watch as she did her "kitchen stuff," but they were only for on her little layout.)

Like I told you several posts up, set a goal and work towards it. Don't get side-tracked by every Lance Mindheim or Model Railroader Beer Line track plan that comes along ... stay focused on your goal ... your dream layout ... or you will never realize your dream!

Stein and I are only trying to encourage you to do the things that will keep you interested in the hobby, rather than to frustrate you into discarding the hobby as a "money hole" that never gives you the object of your dreams.

[Justinmiller171]

Thanks guys, I have been thinking about what you said and my "dream layout" would have to be an Appalachian coal hauler, when I first got interested into realistic model railroading I picked up Tony Koester's book on operation and the picture of his layout in the book really got me interested in Appalachian coal mining railroads, I have been looking around this site:http://www.appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/index.html and in the track-plan section there are some small layouts that would easily fit into my room around the walls.

This plan in particular looks interesting:http://www.appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/tp_rend.html I would have to change it a little bit, but it looks fun and it fits into the theme of my dream layout.

An interurban would be just as good, The Sacramento Northern Railroad went into my hometown and has always interested me.

I guess I have some thinking to do.

[Justinmiller171]

I was rereading this thread when I saw this post again:

Justin, I think what Galen, and I, and possibly others hope is for you to find a focus ... and then pursue it. It is good to dream ... we all do that! But then you must pull back to what is doable today, with today's space and today's funds and today's modeling skills. You spoke once of John Allen, my early model railroading HERO! He started with a small layout ... very small. He built it to a "complete-looking" state. He used it to photograph ads for Varney Models ... FULL PAGE photos that graced the rear cover of Model Railroader! I'm sure that a basement-sized railroad was his big "Dream Layout," but he was focused, and he kept going on the little layout, and then, when the time was right, he incorporated it in the larger one.

Then it hit me, What I really need is a small, focused, and fun layout. One that I can focus on now, and then add to a bigger layout later in life.

I can't really figure out how to put a small layout like this in my room though, The only place I can put a 4x6(or 4x8) is against the wall, and that causes reach problems, i may have to put an access hole in the middle If I am to do that.

Here is another Wants and Needs list:

Needs:
Continuous running
18" radius
Lots of scenery
Southern Pacific Branchline setting
Transition Era

Wants:
Turntable
Some decent switching operation
A decent sized town
some hills and tunnels
Have at least a 2x1 removable access
small yard

[steinjr]

Justin -

That is not focusing. It is having inconsistent dreams.

You want a small 4x6 or 4x8 layout in H0 scale or bigger (although not mentioned in your list of needs or wants), continuous run, lots of scenery, "decent" amount of switching, hills, tunnels, yard, town, must be able to be used as a part of a bigger layout later.

The simplest answer to "want a continuous run loop layout with room for some scenery and spurs on a table that will coexist with normal use of a bedroom" is to go to N scale, on a 30" x 80" Hollow Core Door. It is the equivalent of an H0 scale layout that is 5 x 12 feet, but can fit up against a wall or corner, since you can reach over it with a minimum of effort (and fairly easily manhandle it out from the wall if you need better access to the rear of the layout while building).

Another simple option is a dogbone or waterwing in N scale along one or two walls. Same argument - can do turnback curves you can reach across at the end of the runs.

If you don't want to go to N scale, you are up a creek without much of a paddle.

You certainly won't really be be able to both get lots of tracks, a decent sized town, and lots of scenic running on a 4x8 (or any 4xsomething that will fit into your room) without using a scenic divider down the middle, with aisles on both sides of the layout. Takes too much floorspace to coexist well with other uses of a bedroom. Busted.

You can go around the walls - that allows more types of scenery, since we will be seeing less of the scenery at any given time. But I believe you have already explored this, and for some reason I cannot recall right now discarded that idea.

So I think the time has come to decide what is the most important for you - continuous run or H0 scale.

If H0 scale, then it probably is about time to let continuous run go.
If continuous run, then it is probably about time to explore N scale.

One option is to build an N scale shelf layout with turnback loops at the ends for continuous running along one or two walls. 24 foot of length is quite a bit of real estate for a model railroad when each foot is the equivalent of four 40' boxcars, and you have engines that run slowly.

Anyways - try to come up with a *prioritized* list of what you want. What is the most important, second most important, third most important etc.

The hard part of design is not to decide what to include. It is to decide what you must manage without.

Smile,
Stein