Designing My HO-Scale Room Layout

[shortliner]

Then it hit me, What I really need is a small, focused, and fun layout. One that I can focus on now, and then add to a bigger layout later in life.

I can't really figure out how to put a small layout like this in my room though, The only place I can put a 4x6(or 4x8) is against the wall, and that causes reach problems, i may have to put an access hole in the middle If I am to do that.

Here is another Wants and Needs list:

Needs:
Continuous running
18" radius
Lots of scenery
Southern Pacific Branchline setting
Transition Era

Wants:
Turntable
Some decent switching operation
A decent sized town
some hills and tunnels
Have at least a 2x1 removable access
small yard

So if you have decided that you want to stay in HO, and want to have most of what you have listed - follow the master, and if your result is half as good as his, feel very proud! This is the original layout of the G&D, and Mighty Oaks grow from very small acorns!


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[Russ Bellinis]

So why not make a small shelf switching layout with a logging theme, then?

Having a Shay or Heissler or some such engine hauling logs out from the forest (staging), switching a lumber mill or paper mill or some such place?

Here is a tiny little 9" x 48" (less than one x four foot) H0 scale shelf switching plan for a lumber setting, fromCarl Arendt's sitehttp://www.carendt.us/microplans/pages/r...dex.html#4:



Here is a 2 x 8 foot shelf switching plan with a lumber theme (and more switching opertunities) from Byron Henderson's web page:
http://www.layoutvision.com/gallery/id18.html

Ian Rice's "Small, smart and practical track plans" has a nice point to point shelf switching logging layout with a logging theme: the "linked up logger".

Don't confuse the theme of a layout with it's footprint.


Smile,
Stein

Justin, a small switching layout with a logging theme like this one mentioned by Stein would allow you to build something on a shelf that you could enjoy now. Later when you finish school and move out on your own into a house with either a basement or a room that you can dedicat to a train room, that switching section can be incorporated into a larger dream layout.

[pgandw]

Then it hit me, What I really need is a small, focused, and fun layout. One that I can focus on now, and then add to a bigger layout later in life.

I can't really figure out how to put a small layout like this in my room though, The only place I can put a 4x6(or 4x8) is against the wall, and that causes reach problems, i may have to put an access hole in the middle If I am to do that.

Here is another Wants and Needs list:

Needs:
Continuous running
18" radius
Lots of scenery
Southern Pacific Branchline setting
Transition Era

Wants:
Turntable
Some decent switching operation
A decent sized town
some hills and tunnels
Have at least a 2x1 removable access
small yard

So if you have decided that you want to stay in HO, and want to have most of what you have listed - follow the master, and if your result is half as good as his, feel very proud! This is the original layout of the G&D, and Mighty Oaks grow from very small acorns!


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Having been a student and builder of small layouts all my model railroading life, I would caution you to think very carefully about the road you seem to be headed down. But first, a discussion of the original G&D.

I have been tempted to build a copy of the G&D #1 for my layout in the small bedroom that has been turned into a combination office and train room, so I have studied the plan(s) quite a bit.

John Allen never finished the layout as originally planned. Before he finished the layout, he added some additional space to the left front corner and moved the turntable and engine facility there. The right center area became a 2 spur stockyard facility - stockyard moved from its original plan location at left front corner. I don't know the actual reasons for the changes, but I suspect the "bowl" effect of the elevated outer tracks blocking the view of the planned turntable and facilities may have been one of them. This is a problem with any over/under twice around or figure 8 small layout. The interior where any yards, industries, or the like end up going is partially blocked from view by the raised outer tracks on the grade. The bowl effect is worse if the layout is built higher than normal.

The G&D #1 uses 14" radius curves. The version in 101 Track Plans was expanded to 4x7ft so 15" minimum radius curves could be used. This is not too bad a problem for me with 19th Century rolling stock and locomotives, but it is an issue for many others. About the only usable passenger cars are Overton 34ft cars, and possibly some slightly larger other plastic models of open platform passenger cars. Interestingly enough, the Daphitid "branch" has larger radius curves (about 20+") than the main line. When John Allen incorporated the G&D into layouts #2 and #3, he had to use very small engines on what became the local to Daphitid. The grades are also very steep, which was not so much of a problem in the days of cast boilers on model locomotives. Today's plastic boilers and electronics don't have nearly the weight or the pulling power of the old classics, especially up steep grades. Most of the photos I have seen of this section of the G&D show a Varney Docksider pulling a train across the viaduct or up the grade to Daphitid.

Expansion of the Daphitid branch - the logical expansion point from an operations point of view - is not as simple as if the branch exited the layout going north in the corner instead of west. Length to expand a 4x layout is always difficult to come by. If the space to increase length is available, it is almost always used from the beginning. The typical expansion of an island layout is by adding a shelf piece coming off the side at one end. The shelf piece fits along the same wall where the end is butted. The G&D can be modified by having the Daphitid branch swing out much further into the middle and then curving north at the corner instead of west. 15" radius curves would probably be needed. There are quite a few MR project layouts that used this form of expansion from a basic 4x8 - Portage Hill on the PH&C, the harbor on the Jerome & Southwestern, and the mine on the Turtle Creek come to mind as examples.

Operationally, I not sure how much "fun" a stand-alone G&D #1 is (again, the same applies to any 4x in HO). The branch line is strictly a push-pull affair. Push a couple of cars up to Daphitid, spot them, and pull a couple of cars back to Gorre. The other operations are 1) to circulate a train on the twice-around, and 2) make up and break up a 2-4 car train at Gorre.

The G&D does meet Justin's preference for continuous running through decent scenery, but not much else. Most 4x layouts are going to be similarly limited to meeting just some of the preferences. And no 4x layout is going to be very compatible with using the bedroom as both a bedroom and a layout room. Finally, for a 4x layout, the G&D is relatively complex and time-consuming to build.

What bothers me much more than Justin's vacillation over layout theme is his grand layout plans in light of his age and coming life circumstances. I sure didn't have any idea of a layout theme or constant vision of what I wanted to model when I was in high school. Every attractive layout that came along in Model Railroader (my parents gave me a subscription to MR for my 8th birthday) changed my vision and ideas and inspiration. But as my son, who is currently a high school junior, just told me, "I never expected I would have so little time in high school when I was in the 8th grade." Granted, he is in a challenging academic curriculuum, but he has had to strictly prioritize what little time is left over from studies. From my past, college is even more demanding of the time, especially if you intend your college experience to be more than just studying.

What I am recommending (it's your choice) is that you keep any home layout plans very simple, and take advantage of the nearby club for your train running fix like you are already doing. Build a very simple home layout because of your time limitations and possible impending move. One layout I like for it's simplicity, and will be compatible with your bedroom being a bedroom is Wye River City.



A shelf layout does not give you continuous run. But it will fit in your bedroom much better than any island style layout. You can try out switching to see how much you do or don't enjoy switching. Scenery on a shelf can be quite simple, or very highly detailed. In either case, you get to build a few structures and try your hand at vegetation. All without overwhelming your time, your finances, your room, or your future. When you need to run a long train continuously through scenery, you go to the club instead of having to build it all at home.

A 1x2 access hole won't work - even for a thin teenager. Don't ask me how I know this. Absolute minimum is going to be 18" x 2ft. And the fun quickly disappears when you use one. The best solution I have seen to putting a 4x8 against the wall - other than don't! - is Iain Rice's cockpit design for the 1st layout in his Smart and Friendly Small Layout Book.

Right now I am building a very simple, 4ft x 70in portable "test" layout to test out my preferences and ideas.



The outer loop is HO, the inner red track is HOn3, laid out with Atlas track in RTS software. For the time being, the inner portion will be just an HOn3 loop with a single spur to the transfer platform and shed (bottom center spur on the standard gauge). Whether I will ever rebuild the HOn3 into anything resembling the shown configuration remains to be seen.

The point of this portable layout is to provide a test track for my locomotives and cars. The locomotives are either built from kits, or are extensive bashes which include remotoring and/or regearing. Because I model 1900, the cars are either wood or resin kits, or are bashes from RTR "Old Time" train set plastic cars.

The layout is also serving as a test bed for new ideas and techniques, before I build the "big one." I am using Homasote on top of foam for roadbed, and will be trying carved foam for terrain. I want to compare my handlaid track against Atlas sectional, Atlas and ME flex, and Shinohara turnouts. I haven't built a structure since my Campbell freight station in the late '70s, so I have a couple of kits to build to get my touch back.

Just the model building and layout construction consumes plenty of my hobby time - I haven't started basic operations yet. I will use the operating phase to experiment with throttle, turnout control, and uncoupling preferences. And I will also once again determine my preferences regarding display running vs switching operations.

Moving the portable layout around on 60" legs will let me experiment with minimum acceptable aisle width (for me!) and the practicality of a very high layout.

When I have decided I am ready for the big layout, the portable layout will be stored against the wall so it can be used when needed for locomotive tuning and testing. In the meantime, I am having a blast, even though things are on a much smaller scale than for most of the others on this board.

just my thoughts, your choices

Fred W
builder of small layouts

[ocalicreek]

Fred's got some great ideas there. This is one I liked the best, (as I was already thinking it before he wrote it ):

The best solution I have seen to putting a 4x8 against the wall - other than don't! - is Iain Rice's cockpit design for the 1st layout in his Smart and Friendly Small Layout Book.

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I hope that long link works. Anyway, if not, go to google and search for Iain Rice Small Smart and Practical, then go to the google books link. You are in luck! The 'Hollow Run' layout is there on page 18-19. Part of the text is cut off, as it's not included in the book preview, but you get the idea. I think it could even be an On30 layout if you removed a siding or two and adjusted clearances appropriately.

I've been tempted to build that one. In fact, it was a contender for my current space where the shelf layout is going up. What killed it was the shared space in the room would have been very awkward, and the far corners of the layout wouldn't have been as easily reached due to the height of the layout. However, it can be easily lengthened by stretching the narrow middle, or broadening the curves if you have room. Just keep the continuous run bridge section in mind.

There are just so many factors involved in planning a layout...but central to all the givens and druthers has to be your theme that guides the more flexible aspects like era, locale, and scenery vs. trackage areas.

Good luck,

Galen

[Justinmiller171]

Okay it seems building a layout with continuous run was a bad idea, I've been looking all of the ideas here and I still like the Milwaukee road Ber Line layout the best. It is the "dream Layout" for the space I currently have, I like the feel of the layout, The realistic operation, the theme, and the fact that it is sectional. I may change the layout to be set in the 1940's in Los Angeles on the Southern Pacific, But either way I really like the layout.

[P5se Camelback]

Justin, although the Milwaukee Beer Line is an interesting track plan, unless you want to sleep under the layout and do every other "bedroom activity" somewhere else I would seriously suggest that you limit yourself to a layout the uses two or three walls and is between 12" and 24" deep ... anything deeper than that will be problematic in anything but a very large bedroom. If you seriously want to build that plan, start with one module and build it out ... then move on to the next one. You will not become overwhelmed by the size and you will be exposing yourself to all the different layout-building facets of the hobby, gaining experience in each as you go. (It is ectremely intimidating to build all the benchwork, lay and electrify the track and get everything running properly on a basement-sized "dream layout," only to realize you are now faced with scenery but have never done any scenery, and you stand there looking on in terror at how much scenery you will have to do.)

Keep in mind that as you get older, especially at this early point in your life, you will have less and less time to devote to model railroading, or any hobby, at least if you are serious about school, learning and bettering yourself. (The upside is that later on, if you have been resolute about learning and bettering yourself, you will have more time, more space, and maybe even more importantly, more money to spend on your hobby.

Otherwise, PGandW is offering some solid advice to you, and apparently some first hand knowledge, which is alway valuable and worthy of serious consideration.

At this point, I would suggest you choose the top one or two of your "desires/druthers" and make the most of them, and not include continuous running as one of them. On a small layout, the concessions necessary to permit continuous running usually compromise all other operational aspects of the plan.

And one more thing, and I was guilty of it as a young man, too ... do not confine yourself to published track plans ... they are not the end-all-be-all of track planning! They are only one man's idea ... you are another man, and may have other ideas1 Consider published trackplans as inspiration to develop your own ideas.

[Justinmiller171]

I've been thinking that since this layout is going to be more important than my Miami layout, Should I take the track from the Miami Layout and use it to build the layout in my room?

I came up with a layout with a coal mining theme using the track from my Miami Layout:


I think is is a more focused design, and since it uses wider radius track and turnouts I should be able to use it with my Dream layout when I am older.

[shortliner]

Personally I'd expect operating interest to last about 2 days - but if it is what floats your boat........

As a matter of interest, have you actually tried running trains on any of your designs, using the facility in XTrkCad? That would show you if it is worthwhile building

[tetters]

Justin,

You can get a lot more layout into that 10' by 14' space. One that will definitely provide more operating interest.

This is the original plan for my former 12' x 16' ft layout. Not the best of track plans but it got me started. I ended up dismantling this layout in Jan of 2009 as I wanted to expand a little more and was not entirely happy with it.



However, I must say that I learned a lot while building this layout. It gave me a chance to experiment, try out different things and develop my track laying skills. I also found out that its true, what other more experienced modelers were saying or telling me about this hobby. The truth being that you will usually tear down and rebuild your layout at least three times before you are finally happy with it. Round two for me.

So I would say that if you are happy with your design, go ahead and build it. But I too have to agree with SL, you will get bored rather quickly by this current trackplan.

[Justinmiller171]

I ran trains on it using Xtrkcad and the operations are quite fun, however I see how they can get repetitive.

Would this layout be better?:http://www.appalachianrailroadmodeling.com/tp_rend.html

[steinjr]

Good thing to read : http://macrodyn.com/ldsig/wiki/index.php...opic_Areas

Smile,
Stein

[Justinmiller171]

Thanks for the link Stein! I read the part on why I want to build a layout, and I realized that I like to railfan as well as operate but not in the normal meaning, I like to replicate the actions of the crew rather than just switch cars, I like to take the time to "pretend" that the crew is doing things that aren't visible on the layout, such as airbrake tests or walking to a switch to turn it, I also really like railfaning, but more importantly I like to feel like I am standing near the train, that's why I chose Ho-scale, I want to hear the sounds and see the details of the engines that make them seem more like the real thing.

I want my layout operations to be more than a "game" where the goal is to do the duties the crew is assigned, but rather to simulate what a real train crew does, that's what model railroading means to me, I want to feel like I am part of the crew and simulating what they would do is my goal.

[FCIN]

I want my layout operations to be more than a "game" where the goal is to do the duties the crew is assigned, but rather to simulate what a real train crew does, that's what model railroading means to me, I want to feel like I am part of the crew and simulating what they would do is my goal.

Justin;
You certainly have the right idea for modeling a railroad (freelance or prototype) - realistic operation. You already have developed an excellent plan for a layout (your Miami, FL plan) and for now, I'd concentrate on working on that, add buildings and scenery and get it operation. Forget the other layout for now and give yourself time to see what you really like before worrying about the "dream" layout.

As a former railroad employee, with experience in several different aspects of the railroad industry (conductor, engineer, agent, dispatcher) I can tell you that operating your Miami layout in a realistic manner will keep you busy for quite some time. Having actually worked on some mine run jobs, I can tell you that it's much more enjoyable to work at a town or on a local freight where there is a variety of industries to be switched. Just pulling loads and placing empties at a mine or load out can get old very fast!

Modeling something like your Miami layout, you wear many hats - customer - freight agent making up switch lists for your crew - train crew performing the required duties. All these "duties" will make even the simplest layout seem like much more.

Simple things like stopping to flag a road crossing - waiting a few seconds to give your conductor or brakeman time to line a switch or lace up the air hoses, etc., all add to the operating interest.

Of course you can over do it some cases, but you'll quickly determine what works or doesn't work for you.

Go with the Miami layout and see how your interests develop over time. If it turns out that's not your cup of tea, then start over again at some point.

Best wishes...

[ocalicreek]

Great link, Stein! It's been a while since I read those pages and I remember the impact they had on my planning.

Here's another thought for you, Justin (not to muddy the waters, hopefully :oops: ). Remember that most rolling stock in On30 is short stuff so a 4 car train can look more complete in that scale than a similar train in HO. Not sure why that is, but perhaps it has to do with expectations of what a train should be?

Ditto to what biL said about a loop plan edging out other aspects of a plan. And other functions of a room, too.

And one more thought. On a small plan you can probably get most, if not all of the track laid in a reasonable amount of time, even by hand. But if your plan is track-heavy (not necessarily bad for an ISL or yard design) then consider building it in stages. My own plan can be operated once what I'm calling 'phase 1' is complete, from staging up a branch to a town and back. The next phase or two can then be completed as time and funds allow (the funding is a bigger slow-down factor at this time) and I can work on scenery/structures/rolling stock for phase 1 while waiting on the dough to accrue to build phase 2.

So if you're going to need or want to build in stages, be sure to plan it that way! The mining line looks nice, but perhaps limited in scope. Still, it could be fun if you like making trees!

Galen

[Justinmiller171]

Thanks for the reply Galen, I am sorry I forgot to mention that the Mining layout will be in Ho-scale not On30( Sorry for all of the changes, it's getting confusing now isn't it )

This may sound strange but My least favorite part of operation is switching cars, I thought I did at first but after running trains on my Miami layout it bores me pretty quickly, I don't know why but going back in forth through bland scenery without very much space for running isn't very fun, I know some people can have fun switching a layout with lots of track such as a timesaver, but I need scenery and realism to have fun, even at the cost of operating diversity, Its more about the experience to me, I enjoy feeling like I am really on a coal run, even if it takes me about 20 min to switch all of the industries It is still funner than sorting boxcars