getting back into MRR

[boppa]

It's been almost 15 years since I last had a layout set up and running (jeez how time flies!!)
Am starting afresh as very little of my old HO stuff has survived the various moves/storage and the little that is left is mostly `treasured' models from when I was a kid that will - in all likelyhood never run again without major $$ thrown at them
As I am renting and starting fresh- decided N scale was the way to go
all well and good, but things have changed quite a bit- I ran hornby and lima with hook couplers
now they got these ones that look almost real

I got a `semi' specific idea in mind- which is basically modelling our local sugarcane trains, and suchlike (the mill etc have a lot of potential for scratch building -which was my favourite part in HO hoping N wont prove that much more difficult)

At this time I am looking at making a series of diaramas (each incorporating a twin kato unitrack line running through it)
Why Unitrack?
Well my idea is to make up the small super detailed diaramas I like - and on a short term basis- plug em together with bits of `undiscovered country' unitrack when I want to add a bit of life
Eventually they would be incorperated into a larger layout when I stop renting and moving around so much (work requires a fair bit of wandering around)

bought some cute little mdt plymouth diesel shunters (which after a repaint) are identical to what is used on the sugar cane trains (well pretty bloomin close) so looks like live frogs and dc

OK thats enough of a longwinded semi intro about what I am doing

First question I have - to me they dont look the same, but it seems they apparently do couple together
I got my first 2 of what will be a fleet of the plymouth diesels (60052 Bachmans)
I want to scratchbuild canebins onto Peco nr121 10ft underframes
the peco couplers- do they hook up to the bachmans???- or will I have to change one or the other?

I am hoping they do- otherwise its likely the bachmans will be fitted with the peco couplers (as I want to run semi prototypical cane trains- ie as many extremely short wheelbase carrages behind 1 or 2 locos with extremely tight curves (the 1:1 scale ones around here can literally turn 90 deg in little more than 30m and have up to 100 unbraked bins behind them) and I'd rather change the loco than a fleet of carriages

sorry to be so longwinded...

[boppa]

already decided after running these bachmans- like the looks, but the quality varies between units from the factory

wildly different speeds and surprisingly noise- the noisy one was slow- so brainbox here thunks- hmm noisy- slow- friction

applied several drops of sewing machine oil from a pin to visible cogs and...


OMFG- its quiet and now twice the speed!!!

tries with other loco-
little bit quieter and little bit faster- but on an circle of unitrack these two now chased each other for almost ten minutes before the quicker one caught the slower one on dc

will be interesting to see if this continues to be true as I aquire more
sugests to me that bachman q/c isnt the best (also the two `headlights' are visibly different in brightness)

both will be ripped out and replaced with something better- yellow leds do NOT look like headlights- these things I wont even be reusing as roof beacons- too dull too `dim yellow'
sighs - never happy- buy two locos and get them this afternoon - already want to rip out the headlights and fit better ones, take off the funny `sloppy smokestack' and fit a vertical chrome stack and of course repaint in correct colours for our local mill (well the last couple I spose I cant blame bachman for...)

And the amount of black crud that appeared on the track and wheels within a few laps was amazing- I dont remember the older stuff doing this??
(or maybe I just never noticed) but the first few dozen laps was run/wipe wheels and rails/ run/ wipe wheels and rails/ run.....

[Gary S]

Can't help you with any of the N scale loco questions, but good luck on the new leap into model railroading. The diorama idea sounds like a good one. Once you get a permanent place, you'll have a great head start on a big layout!

[Puddlejumper]

Good idea to tune and lube your locos. Just remember on a loco that small... one drop of oil is probably all you need to apply. You mentioned applying "several" drops... this may be where your cruddy rails are coming from. Your concept sounds neat, I look forward to seeing some pics and some progress!

[boppa]

I know less is better ;-)
there are 4 visible cogs- I applied a `wiped off drop' to each- barely enough to dampen each of the cogs in a single tooth
dont think that is the cause of my rail blackening as the cogs arent directly in line with the rails anyway
it was surprising how little made a difference to the running tho
I am surprised that such little (060) shunters run so well and consistantly (after being lubed)

the headlight I have found (after pulling one apart (already LOL))
isnt a led- its a 12v bulb into a light tube

thats gunna go - quick smart...

I want to turn this



into this


photo by dunedoo
it wont have the side pushrods, but apart from that I want to copy the originals as closely as possible
roof beacons and headlights (micro leds should fit I think- just have to figure out how to make them constant brightness and operating all the time (I'm using dc- so that will be interesting- altho I have some ideas with high frequency ac superimposed on the dc should work)

glad I am used to working with surface mount electronics- scratch building in N is going to be `interesting'- certainly will be fun

[Gary S]

I always marvel at the folks who work on and modify n-scale engines. Especially a tiny little loco like the one in your photo! Will there be room inside for the electronic components needed for a high frequency-DC filter for the light? Good luck!

[boppa]

was thinking of going the other way- ac (esp high frequency ac in the 10's of kHz with a very short duty cycle) wont drive the motor, but will light an led on each half cycle and persistance of vision should do the rest- at this stage its just an idea, but I am fairly sure I can make it work with nothing more than the leds on the roof and no other electronics involved

the remodeling of the cabin and bonnet is going to be harder- I want them to look like they were made that way

[boppa]

might be a little while before I get to the locos and bins anyway, I am starting with the drivein module and station module first
already bought the drivein screen and started building the drivein shop / projection building
(its going to be a fully operational drivein- complete with functioning screen (a 7" monitor stripped of its case playing dvds)
just ordered 20 headlight cars online and 100 unlit cars as well
even designed the `projection box' a flickering multicolour led should look the part of a projector in the building
and the headlight cars mixed in with the unlit cars should be good for `flashing' the screen at the naughty bits of the movies
;-)

[Triplex]

One question (going out on a limb)... Aren't the Queensland sugar trains 2' gauge? As in, wouldn't it be more appropriate to still model in HO, but use that N-scale switcher converted to HO narrow gauge with a taller cab?

[boppa]

they are, and the intention eventually is to maybe model that part of it in z guage, once I get used to the smaller n scale stuff and have the N scale running QR mainlines

That probably wont happen for a while tho, and until then I was going to be using `creative liscence' with the track gauge

[boppa]

Well got an answer
pecos and bachmans do hook up `kinda'
(they do seem quite easy to pull apart tho unlike either peco/peco or bachman/bachman)
so the locos will be peco'ised.. (if thats a word)

I'm using unitrack apart from the mill where I am thinking flextrack will be used- because of a quite steep decline and turn on 2 lines- maybe

What I am thinking is having a `full train' (loco + 20 or more carriages) go into the mill full and come out `empty'

what will actually be happening is that the `full train' will take a dive to a lower level and disappear behind the mills `backdrop'- stopping every 2 carrages (magic electronics stuff)
at the same time a `empty' train will also take a dive down and around from a higher level to `come out' the other side of the sugar cane mill at the same level as the first went in- stopping and starting in unison with the `full train'- IE looking like the same train being emptied out of sight `inside' the mill

the electronics I can do easily, question is...

what would be the maximum turn/dive a 060 loco and 10ft long carriages could reliably do (on a downhill run)

could I expect minimal derailments with a 30cm wide mill

(not flash- but I hope this shows what I am talking about)
(imagine the X being s curves instead)

   

It's way above a 5% grade- but as it's downhill and not seen

anyone done anything similar?? thoughts on if it's a good idea/bad idea????

[LFDRR]

what will actually be happening is that the `full train' will take a dive to a lower level and disappear behind the mills `backdrop'- stopping every 2 carrages (magic electronics stuff) at the same time a `empty' train will also take a dive down and around from a higher level to `come out' the other side of the sugar cane mill at the same level as the first went in- stopping and starting in unison with the `full train'- IE looking like the same train being emptied out of sight `inside' the mill

I think I'm missing something. Surely, to create the illusion that the train enters loaded and exits empty both entry and exit have to be on the same level.

The loaded train drops to the lower level to hide the loaded wagons.
The empty train climbs from the hidden lower section to the higher level and exits with empty wagons.

This means that the empty train has to climb that 5% grade at the same speed as the loaded wagon enters, stopping every two wagons as well. I know electronics can sort out the start/stop motion but 5% uphill with wagons (empty or otherwise) and starting and stopping to boot may just be a little ambitious. I use 1 in 30 ratio as a maximum. So for every 300mm along you go up or down 10mm.

If the empty train is one the exit level already then the distance between the crossover point is going to be about 150mm so that would be the total length that the loaded train has to drop enough to clear the empty train and the bridge support.

In theory it's a great idea but practically I'm not so sure.

Angie

[boppa]

Almost

the loaded one does drop to a lower level (-40mm) with both the entrance and exit of the mill at the same level (0mm) but the empty wont be climbing UP, it is coming down from another level above (+40mm)

so both trains would never have to climb in that distance, both would be descending (the inclines would be much gentler and probably some distance away)
edit to add
AHHA- I think I get what may have confused you- In that diagram the top rails (-40mm and +40mm) are the hidden ones behind the backdrop so the visible section with the mill is from the black backdrop line downwards with the `entry' and `exit' doors of then mill at 0mm (ie same level)

[Gary S]

I'm going to say that it is a brilliant idea. This isn't the typical "loads in - empties out" arrangement. As loaded cars come in from one side, the empties are simultaneously exiting the other side, giving the appearrance of a single train pulling through the mill and exiting the other side. Again, briliiant!

Now, between ops sessions, what would you do to "reload" the train? You'll have to get the empties back into position behind the mill, andthe loaded cars will have to be taken to the place where they originate. Will you do this with the 0-5-0 switcher (by hand)? Or will you be running the trains backward under power (meaning they do have to climb those grades)? Or do the hidden tracks continue in hiding all the way back to where the loads originate from?

As for whether the drops and curves are doable, can't help you there. I would recommend setting up a mock-up and see how the trains handle your propsed track arrangement.

[LFDRR]

AHHA- I think I get what may have confused you- In that diagram the top rails (-40mm and +40mm) are the hidden ones behind the backdrop so the visible section with the mill is from the black backdrop line downwards with the `entry' and `exit' doors of then mill at 0mm (ie same level)

Ooooh (lightbulb just came on over my head )

This is one thread I'm definately watching. One problem may be the angle of descent may cause an issue with the couplers disengaging. Obviously this could be worked around but something to think about.

Angie