2-8-2 - THE BUILD

[Steamtrains]

OK...So I finally got around to getting this beast out of the box and onto the rails.....

First step....Filing all that flashing off...It's no fun to hold onto an odd-shaped piece full of sharp edges and grinding it off...
After a few days I managed to clean all the pieces up and ready for the next step. (Question...The cylinders have a couple of bracket-like features on the bottom "corners" which can clearly be seen in the pic. Are these supposed to be there, or are they more flashing that needs to be filed off? While I'm asking, what is that gizmo just in front of the sand dome..??)




Every piece, including the tender trucks had to be cleaned up...I've never seen such sloppilly cast pieces. They're probably using the same molds they made when this loco first came out...Probably in the late 40's or early 50's...

In that second pic you can see the frame with wheels and connecting rods assembled, and the motor mounted. The logic is this. This loco has a long history of being a bear of a runner. I want to make sure the loco runs as close to perfect as I can get it, so I'll assemble the whole running train and tweak it as required before proceeding with the "cosmetic" aspect of the build.

Next...Putting the valve gear together. This is such a fun job, I may well have reserved a place in H..l for myself from all the cussin' that got done. Actually, it wasn't as hard as I had anticipated, it's just that I'm all thumbs...

A pic of all the trinkets that need to be assembled...


The job wasn't made any easier as there are two sets of drawings and instructions, each one different, and no indication as to which version is to be built.... :evil: In any event, I managed to sort things out and got the pieces assembled....

Note that I took great care in making sure I built a right and a left hand set. Don't ask why I went to this extreme...

I assembled the RH set, installed it to the frame and wheels, and tested it.



It ran OK but the main connecting rod had a lot of "slop" where it attaches to the driving wheel pin causing the movement to transmit all the way to the gear hanger. I fixed this by cutting a razor-thin washer out of a styrene tube (from the junk box...) which fit very nicely over the driving pin, and re-assembled it. Slop is gone....
I have yet to finish assembling the LH set since I ran out of rivets....I didn't make but a couple of boo-boos, and some that went flying off to destinations unknown...

So, while I wait for the spare rivets to arrive, I turned to prepping the boiler for its cosmetic "enhancement'. I sawed off the light "tube", and ground off the generator on top of the boiler...


I was kind of hesitant to start butchering up the casting, but things went really well, and I' m looking to perhaps do more "enhancements" than I had initially contemplated. We'll see. I did for starters order the W'ton FWH, which I hadn't wanted to replace. So I'll get back to knocking it off, as well as the bell mounting stud.

Well, that's where she sits now. I'll post some more pics as this project slogs along....

[nachoman]

Interesting.... I am anxious to see how this goes together.

[Gary S]

Gus, i don't know much about the steam side of the hobby, but is this a kit? I assume it is, since you mention "out of the box" and you are having to clean off the flash. Is this an old kit, or can you still buy kit locos that need to be built up?

The photos are good, and I look forward to more of this.

[BR60103]

Gus:
I just dug out my MR Cyclopedia and looked through the 2-8-2 section.
If this is your PRR L1: there's a picture and drawing in the book. The cylinders look round on the bottom and that thingy behind the stack does not exist.
The were 2-8-2s on other roads that had that thingy, though.
I think the thingy may be a check valve for the water delivery system.
Do you need plans? I could copy the page in the Cyclopedia for you.

[nachoman]

Similar kits were once a mainstay of the HO market. As far as I am aware, Bowser was the last producer of steam locomotive kits, and they quit producing kits about two years ago. Previous to that, Model Die Casting (Roundhouse) produced steam kits, but that line was dropped when MDC was bought by Athearn in about 2004. All of my steamers except one were built from MDC kits, the other is a Mantua ready-to-run I bought used at a train show.

[P5se Camelback]

Gus ...

I'm not sure what to tell you about the cylinders ... I'd suggest you PM doctorwayne as he is the Go-To Guy for steam, at least when it comes to all the attached appliances and their associated plumbing!

You are probably correct when you speculate re: the age of the tooling. All molding/casting tooling wears over time, some faster than others depending on the abrasiveness of the material being molded or cast. Zamac is relatively coarse and wears a tool faster than styrene. The tooling for the locomotive you are building (Mantua, Bowser, MDC) dates, no doubt , from at least the sixties, if not before. Production of these great old kits has slowed as so many newer model railroaders don't want to be bothered to actually build stuff ... they are of the "instant" generation ... they want it now, and detailed to the max. So whereas RTR used to be cheap and kits, along with a more detailed model, cost more, now kits are becoming relatively rare and RTR costs as much as a whole peddler freight of RTR cars used to cost.

Anyhow, you're off to a good start ... be mindfull of carefully filling in the "pits in your complexion" (as I am having to do with my EOY project,) be careful when applying your detail parts, don't rush things and when it's all painted and lettered and everything you'll have a nice looking model that weighs a ton and will pull track nails out of the plywood sub-roadbed!

I'm looking forward to following your progress!

Both BR60103 and Nachoman each slipped entries in under me as I was exercising my notoriously slow and typo laden typing, followed by three proof readings.

[Steamtrains]

Gary, I believe biL is correct. There are no more manufacturers of cast metal kits for steamers nowadays. The last to offer them was Tyco, and they essentially offered what was then in stock from Mantua/Tyco. Bowser will still offer parts, but once they've run out, that'll be the end of that game.
David, I do have a substantial collection of information on the 2-8-2, including photos and a "blueprint" of the USRA Mike, which also does not show that widgit....
I will take my time building this thing, as I'll have other "distractions" (...layout..) to keep me busy.
I'll update the thread as progress warrants.

Thanks for looking....

[ocalicreek]

The widgit in front of the sand dome could be the check valve. Pennsy was atypical with their check valve placement, putting some in the cab, actually. Just have to check the prototype pics to get a good idea.

And whaddya mean filing isn't fun?

Galen

[doctorwayne]

After a few days I managed to clean all the pieces up and ready for the next step. (Question...The cylinders have a couple of bracket-like features on the bottom "corners" which can clearly be seen in the pic. Are these supposed to be there, or are they more flashing that needs to be filed off? While I'm asking, what is that gizmo just in front of the sand dome..??)

Gus, in the picture, above, the "lump" ahead of the stack is the heater component of a Worthington feedwater heater system. There should be another "lump" beneath the running board on the fireman's side of the loco, usually near the front end - that'd be the hot water pump. There may (or may not) be a cold water pump, too - it would be near the rear of the loco and down low, usually hung below the lowest part (front) of the firebox. All three components can be seen in the photo below:


The lumps on the bottom of the cylinders are either flash or part of the runners, and need to be filed off.

Referring to your original photo, the raised area surrounded by rivets/bolts is an access to the superheater header - I'd leave this one unless you plan on a more detailed version.
Immediately behind that is a very rough approximation of a top feed check valve - this is where the water enters the boiler. The moulded-on pipe which is visible is a cold water line, fed from an injector, usually under the cab or on the boiler just ahead of the cab, on the engineer's side of the loco. If you're using a feedwater heater of any kind, its hot water output pipe should be connected to the opposite side of the check valve. If you're not installing a fwh, there should be another cold water pipe connected to the fireman's side of the check valve. It's fed from another injector on the fireman's side of the loco, either under the cab or on the boiler just ahead of the cab.
Behind the check valve is the sand box, or dome, followed by the steam dome, and an auxiliary dome - the latter usually carried the pop valves, maybe a valved pipe for live steam, and perhaps the whistle.
The big "lump" at the rear is the turret shrouding - the turret was simply an array of pipes and valves to direct steam to all of the appliances which used it - of the two moulded-on pipes coming from it, I'm not sure of the purpose of the upper one, but the lower one supplies steam to the injector (mentioned earlier) and the pipe below that is the cold water line from that injector to the check valve.
Also visible, beneath the running board and ahead of the firebox, is the power reverse. It moved the valve gear to adjust the running characteristics of the loco and was also, obviously, the means of reversing. Depending on the maker and model, it should have a steam line connected to it, usually at the rear or somewhere on the top.

Wayne

[nachoman]

A couple other things I noticed, in addition to what Wayne said:

- this loco appears to have a jacketed smokebox, as I see no rivet lines delineating the smoke box from the rest of the boiler.
- between the turret shroud and the auxiliary dome is a dynamo (electrical generator).

Personally, I would cut of the dynamo and check valve and replace them with brass castings, and file off all the piping and replace that with brass wire. Getting rid of the feedwater components or doing more work to the smokebox would be more difficult.

[Puddlejumper]

Forgive me for interjecting, just wanted to mention that this is not a PRR loco. There were a couple of references to PRR standards, which were fairly unique, and since this boiler has a radial stay firebox not a belpaire, I would guess that USRA references would be more appropriate.

[doctorwayne]

- this loco appears to have a jacketed smokebox, as I see no rivet lines delineating the smoke box from the rest of the boiler.
- between the turret shroud and the auxiliary dome is a dynamo (electrical generator).

Personally, I would cut of the dynamo and check valve and replace them with brass castings, and file off all the piping and replace that with brass wire. Getting rid of the feedwater components or doing more work to the smokebox would be more difficult.

Oops! Yeah, I missed that generator. :oops: You're also correct about the lagged smokebox, and the firebox is also partially lagged - fortunately, the lagged area makes it easier to remove the cast-on piping. Both Cal-Scale and PSC offer replacement generators and top feed injectors, and both in several variations, too. Replacing those two items will go a long way in making your loco look well-detailed.
To get rid of the cast-on fwh components, a coarse-cut mill file will make short work of the majority of the smokebox-top "lump", while a hacksaw will help to remove the bulk of the hot water pump on the fireman's side of the loco. For the latter part, remove the remaining bits using a cutter bit in your Dremel, then finish with needle files as required. If you're installing a new, better-detailed hot water pump, you only need to clean-up that which will show, plus whatever is required to mount the new part.
For mounting brass detail parts to an existing boiler shell, regardless of whether it's brass, Zamac, or plastic, make use of the mounting pins which are part of most brass detailing parts. If the part doesn't have a mounting pin, consider adding one by drilling the rear of the part to accept a short length of brass wire of a suitable diameter - use solder or ca to secure it in the part (solder is a must if you intend to solder the part to the boiler). A mounting pin will strengthen the joint considerably, and is especially important if you're using ca or epoxy to affix the parts.
If you're adding brass piping to connect cast brass detail parts, drill the detail parts to accept wire of suitable diameter (note that many Cal-Scale info sheets list required pipe sizes, but the sizes may be for inside diameters - adjust accordingly). Temporarily affix the parts to the boiler using masking tape or wet, wadded-up tissues, and, after bending the pipes to fit, clean their ends, apply a little flux and insert them into their respective holes. A quick touch with some resin-core solder and a hot iron with attach them to one another permanently. You can then remove them as a unit, or attach them permanently to the boiler, using ca or epoxy.
This technique will also work on plastic boilers: use wet tissues to protect all areas where the metal parts being soldered touch the plastic - for example, if you're soldering a water pipe to the top feed injector, the pipe where it last makes contact with the boiler shell before entering the check valve should be covered with a wad of wet tissue. The check valve itself should also be covered, except for the area immediately adjacent to the pipe, along with the nearby areas of the plastic boiler. Make sure that all areas to be joined are clean and shiny, with a small amount of resin flux in the joint and use a clean, hot iron. In most cases, the joint will be made in a second or so, with no damage to the plastic.

Wayne

[Schraddel]

Hello Gus!

Here are assembilng instructions of 1949:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantua282mikado1949pg5.jpg">http://www.hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosi ... 949pg5.jpg</a><!-- m -->

A replacement parts list of 1952.
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosionMantua/mantua282mikadoinst1953pg03.jpg">http://www.hoseeker.com/assemblyexplosi ... 53pg03.jpg</a><!-- m -->

They reworked the mechanism several times:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hoseeker.com/mantuainstructions.html">http://www.hoseeker.com/mantuainstructions.html</a><!-- m -->
As i see your mikado is upgraded with a can motor.

And Murphy's laws for little sprungs and tiny rivets:
They will fly
a) to destinations unknown (as you wrote), or
b) directly into your eye.

Gus i wish you a good sucess for taming the beast

Greetings Lutz

[iis612]

I shelved a Bowser Mikado kit. This may be the motivation I need to get it back on the workbench. Yours is looking great so far, and I will be following this build with great interest.

Matt

[P5se Camelback]

... For mounting brass detail parts to an existing boiler shell, regardless of whether it's brass, Zamac, or plastic, make use of the mounting pins which are part of most brass detailing parts. If the part doesn't have a mounting pin, consider adding one by drilling the rear of the part to accept a short length of brass wire of a suitable diameter - use solder or ca to secure it in the part (solder is a must if you intend to solder the part to the boiler). A mounting pin will strengthen the joint considerably, and is especially important if you're using ca or epoxy to affix the parts.

If you're adding brass piping to connect cast brass detail parts, drill the detail parts to accept wire of suitable diameter (note that many Cal-Scale info sheets list required pipe sizes, but the sizes may be for inside diameters - adjust accordingly). Temporarily affix the parts to the boiler using masking tape or wet, wadded-up tissues, and, after bending the pipes to fit, clean their ends, apply a little flux and insert them into their respective holes. A quick touch with some resin-core solder and a hot iron with attach them to one another permanently. You can then remove them as a unit, or attach them permanently to the boiler, using ca or epoxy. ... Wayne

O.K., I now need some clarification! I know I've been away from the hobby for a couple decades, and I haven't played with Zamac castings (especially for locomotives) since the ice age before that, my readings of the paragraphs above raise questions in this onld memory-challenged head. I have soldered (or re-soldered) details onto a brass boiler and used ACC (CA) to afix brass details to a plastic models, but if memory serves (and often it doesn't) you must use acc (CA) or epoxy to attach such details to a Zamac casting, such as a locomotive boiler. I don't think you can solder to Zamac.

Do I remember correctly? Soldering irons and Zamac castings don't play well together, correct?