TPBO

[FCIN]

Ed, have you downloaded the July issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist? There is an article in there about cutting out wood blocks from 1/2 inch plywood to simulate lumber loads on bulkhead flats, and the article includes artwork for wrappers from various lumber companies done in an Excel file that can be sized for whatever scale you wish to model in. I downloaded the artwork, and there must be a dozen different lumber companies from the U.S. and Canada.

Russ;

Yep, I sure did. Those wrappers look great, although I haven't tried to print one out to see how it will look. Do need more loads of lumber for my bulkhead flats and will also need stacks of them sitting around the unloading area.

[FCIN]

Here are a couple of photos I took of my ISL showing the structure mock ups I threw together to test things out. For reference, here is the track plan as it is currently laid out:     First photo, we're looking at the west end of Superior Meats and Durkee Foods and across the lead is Munson's Chocolates.
    Next photo, we're looking at the east end of those industries. The Co-Op truck is where a road crossing will be located.     Last photo, we're looking at the Midwest Distribution Warehouse and the Lowes Lumber spur opposite that. L&N 5030, an MP15dc has just placed a bulkhead flat of lumber for Lowes and is getting ready to switch the warehouse. Usually, we have an L&N bay window cab with our train, but we had a conductor off the extra board tonight who declared "We don't need no stinking cab!", and made the flagman ride the end of the train. At least he could ride on the end of the bulkhead flat and thank goodness, it didn't rain.     The mock ups where made from some inexpensive foam board and really help to get a feel for how this plan will work out. Would have painted them some interesting color, but the only spray paint on hand was some primer gray, so I just left them as is. As you can tell, I didn't spend much time detailing the mock ups, but just wanted to get the basic shape and size for testing purposes.

I'm having a good time making the mock ups and operating the layout and at this point am fairly satisfied with things. Two of us operated the layout this evening and it took an hour and ten minutes to finish our work. Having a conductor off the extra board who's not familiar with the industrial spur usually adds about 15 minutes to a typical operating session.

[Justinmiller171]

Finally some pictures!

The layout looks nice

[Southern Tuxedo]

Ed,

That is SWEET!!!!

It looks awesome and I’m jealous that you have 26’ to play with.

I have a question on the three vertical tanks on the end of Munson's Chocolates. Are they from the old IHC Cement Factory kit or something similar to it
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If so, that is the exact setup that I am planning on using for my corn syrup storage on TastyBake. The kit has been sitting in storage for about a year now waiting on the layout.

Mark

[FCIN]

I have a question on the three vertical tanks on the end of Munson's Chocolates. Are they from the old IHC Cement Factory kit or something similar to it <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://plasticmodeltown.com/cement.html">http://plasticmodeltown.com/cement.html</a><!-- m -->

Thanks Mark. Making mock ups for proposed structures and their locations really does help to get a feel for how the layout plan will look and operate. The actual industrial area on my current plan is using about half the available space, so I may space the tracks out a little more in the final version, but other than that, I'm pleased with it.

As for those vertical tanks, you answered my own question about where they came from! I've had them in a box of odds and ends for about 25-30 years and couldn't for the life of me remember what kit they came from. I do remember that the only reason I bought the kit was to get the tanks/silos. I put the tanks together and tossed the rest in the trash. The link you sent sure looks like that is where they came from.

I have a lot of fine tuning to do before I actually start building the layout and the structures. I have the Munson's Chocolate (based on Bloomer Chocolates in Union City, CA) too close to the track right now, so am going to redo it today after studying the prototype a little closer. I won't be using those vertical tanks with it, but rather some other simple looking steel storage tanks. Also, there won't be as many non-rail served structures on the layout as shown in the plan. Want a bit more open scenery as you enter the main layout from under the highway overpass.

[Brakie]

Ed,I like the way your layout is shaping up..


Excellent plan.

[FCIN]

Here are the final two proposed versions of my ISL. Overall size: 18in by 20ft with an 8in by 6ft staging track. Sorry that you must scroll the plans to see them, but if I made them any smaller, you couldn't make out much about the plan.

This is the track plan as I've currently been operating:     Industries, from right (East) to left (West) are: Lowes Lumber (2 spots), Midwest Distribution Warehouse (4 spots), Durkee Foods (4 spots), Superior Meats (1 spot) and, Munsons Chocolates (4 spots).

Here's a view of the revised structure mock up for Munsons Chocolates:     Been operating this version for a while now and rather like it, but have to admit that it does still bother me that you can't see the cars on spot at Munsons Chocolates. It hasn't been a problem to spot and uncouple the cars behind this structure with my uncoupling tool, but it has occurred to me that when I add some of the piping and other roof details, the risk of damaging something could be a problem.

With that in mind, here is an alternate version of the plan:     On this version the industries from East to West are: Peerless Confections (2 spots), Midwest Distribution Warehouse (4 spots), Durkee Foods (4 spots), Superior Meats (1 spot), a covered hopper trans-load (2 spots) and, a team track area (2 spots). The track arrangement is unchanged from the current version, but I've gone back to having Peerless Confections at the East End and replaced Munsons Chocolates with a covered hopper trans-load and a team track area. In effect, adding another car spot location (5 industries instead of 4 as on version one).

Even though I still have an industry (Peerless) with cars spotted behind the structure, you can easily see the cars when you stand at the East end and the structure will not be but about 25 scale feet high where the cars spot. The spur could also be angled if desired. I've sort have been trying to avoid having a team track as such on the layout, as IMHO it seems a little out of place on an industrial spur like this, but of course you can find such situations here and there on various prototype industrial spurs. It does make it easier to spot the cars at Durkee and Superior and of course you can easily see what's spotted on the team track/trans-load. The covered unloading shed helps to make an otherwise completely open area a little more interesting. Either plan supports all my freight equipment.

Any way, I'm making a mock up today for the Peerless structure which will allow me to try out this variation without having to make any modifications to the track arrangement. And I'm open to your opinions as to which plan you fellows might prefer. Operating the second version will hopefully help me make a final decision too, and once I get the health issues out of the way; then I can actually begin construction of the layout and structures.

For those interested, in operation, the train is staged on what represents the main line coming from a nearby yard. Train (with caboose) shoves to the industrial spur switch, lines the switch and opens the derail, then shoves on to the spur, places switch back and derail back to normal position and reports clear of the main line to the dispatcher or yard master. You then shove the train to the end of the spur and work your way back toward the main line. Once you're ready to depart from the spur, you get permission from the DI or YM to occupy the main, line the derail and switch, pull back on the main and after lining the switch and derail back to normal, report clear of the spur and head back toward the yard. Current operations are averaging an hour, when you have at least one car to place/pull at each industry.

When I start actual construction on my ISL, I may add a second track to the staging area, so that two trains could be staged at one time if I wanted to have two different crews on different shifts work the spur.

[Justinmiller171]

I would go with Plan 2, the team track will give you alot more operation, as well as freight car variety.

[Southern Tuxedo]

Hi Ed,

I really like your mock ups of Munson’s Chocolates, especially the one with the vertical tanks, so I am voting for design number 1. It might change if we get to see your mock-ups of design #2, but I kind of doubt it as I have seen enough unimpressive team tracks to turn me off of them. I keep going back to your pictures to study them and there is something about your design and execution that just looks right. I can really visualize what you are trying to accomplish and it looks great to my eye.

If uncoupling becomes problematic with an industry between you and the train, have you considered Kadee’s electro-magnetics? Although pricy, my experimenting with them on a test track has been very successful with whisker couplers, enough so that I am confident in planning to bury five of them inside of a building on my TastyBake ISL. I paid $13.60 for the #309’s and you would need a way to power and control them.

I can’t wait to see more pictures.

Mark

[Justinmiller171]

Hmm.....Perhaps Mark is right, Team tracks seem to be on almost every single switching layout there is, however they are not often found in industrial parks.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I also like plan #1. Team tracks are great and all, but one thing that frustrates me about them is that they really AREN'T that interesting. Its just a random rail car parked somewhere. It may give you an excuse to have a flat car around on a layout otherwise loaded with boxcars, hoppers and Tankers, but the structure itself isn't that interesting, unless you have some sort of scene modeled with it.

Besides, in the modern world, I don't think there is much use for Team Tracks. I never hear of any heavily used Team track, and the ones I do know about always look like they might collapse. I would think that most things that formerly went to the team track now just get shipped to regional distribution warehouses where they may get rail shipped anyway, AKA the industrial park.

[Brakie]

Besides, in the modern world, I don't think there is much use for Team Tracks. I never hear of any heavily used Team track, and the ones I do know about always look like they might collapse. I would think that most things that formerly went to the team track now just get shipped to regional distribution warehouses where they may get rail shipped anyway, AKA the industrial park.
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Actually team tracks are still widely use by every major railroad and some short lines except they're now called Trans load tracks and distribution centers..

I suppose "team track" sounded to old fashion for today's railroad yuppies and they developed a new eye catching name..

[Green_Elite_Cab]

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Actually team tracks are still widely use by every major railroad and some short lines except they're now called Trans load tracks and distribution centers..

I suppose "team track" sounded to old fashion for today's railroad yuppies and they developed a new eye catching name..

But are they really team tracks in the traditional sense? They aren't little single tracks with a loading dock anymore.

They're frequently large facilities with multiple tracks alternating with paved roadway for trucks to unload bulk goods from tank cars and hoppers. Large warehouses handle the transfers between trucks and boxcars. They're also usually spread hundreds of miles apart, as trucks can make the journey to wherever within a few hundred mile radius.

while the old style team tracks are around, I don't think i would consider them the same as a dedicated trans-load facility.

[FCIN]

Hi Ed,
I really like your mock ups of Munson’s Chocolates, especially the one with the vertical tanks, so I am voting for design number 1.

What I'm calling Munson's Chocolates is based on Bloomer Chocolates in Union City, CA. The mock up is just so-so, but based on what the actual facility looks like. Looking at the facility in Bing/Google aerial views and Google street view, I noticed that the rail siding was actually some distance away from the structure. I noticed that there is a loading dock that runs next to the track for about half the length of the structure that has a canopy over it that just barely extends out over the top edge of any cars spotted there, so I tried to capture that look.

Constructing it that way, made it a bit easier to couple/uncouple cars behind the building. My only concern has been that there is a good amount of piping and other potential details that need to be placed on part of the roof and I am just a tad worried that those details might get damaged under normal operations. Probably just need to make me a slightly longer uncoupling tool.

I really don't like or want to use the electro-magnet uncouplers. Main reason is that I intend to cut off the trip pins on my couplers. I use a simple uncoupling tool that I made up some years ago, that consists of just a piece of plastic tubing with a thin metal blade inserted and glued in to one end. Works like a charm. Would be easy enough to make a longer one.

For whatever it's worth, most all my structures/industries are based on actual facilities found around the country, but I try to pick names for them that are more likely to be found in my part of the country and that have interesting logos that I can get off the Internet. Durkee Foods/Superior Meats is modeled after the Family & Son food processor and Northwestern Meats facilities in Miami, FL, although a mirror image. The warehouse will be just your typical warehouse structure that you see all over the country, just have to decide what sort of material it will be - sheet metal, precast concrete or concrete block.

It might change if we get to see your mock-ups of design #2, but I kind of doubt it as I have seen enough unimpressive team tracks to turn me off of them. I keep going back to your pictures to study them and there is something about your design and execution that just looks right. I can really visualize what you are trying to accomplish and it looks great to my eye.

I started trying to come up with a mock up for the proposed Peerless Confections structure and realized that for the most part, it would just be a shorter version of the Munsons facility with perhaps a truck dock on one end and it really just didn't "do it" for me. Lowes Lumber or a similar building products distributor seems to fit better in that location, as most of these facilities that receive shipments by rail, tend to just have a large concrete pad and sometimes a concrete dock that is out in the open away from the main structure. Putting a chain link fence and gate around that track, along with stacks of lumber, etc. should be good enough for that facility.

As I mentioned in the previous post, I've really been trying to avoid the common place team track/trans-load track on my layout and after thinking things over some more, I'm probably just going to stay with plan version No. 1. Although, as Larry pointed out, team tracks/trans-load tracks/distribution centers are very common and widely used these days, they aren't very common on industrial spurs. You do find them located in industrial areas, but they are often rather large facilities that handle a lot of bulk traffic and often have several tracks as opposed to just a single track as GEC stated, and many of them would make a complete layout in themselves.

So I guess we'll stick with plan version no. 1 (no team/trans-load track). Just looks more like an industrial spur to me, when you have structures on both sides of the lead/main track. Might be a little tricky to work at times, but at this point it hasn't proved to be a problem other than it bothers me a little that you can't see the cars on spot behind that one structure. Guess that's no different then driving down a street in an industrial park and not seeing what is spotted behind the X-Y-Z company's building.

[Brakie]

while the old style team tracks are around, I don't think i would consider them the same as a dedicated trans-load facility.
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Oddly that exactly what the railroads calls the old fashion single track team track located in some areas-its a ad man's play on words that works.

Did you know some short lines still uses the term "team track" ?
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Ed,I'm not so sure you should give up the team/transloading track since it still plays a vital roll in some areas in servicing off line customers-unless you want to give those customers up to the truckers..

I will keep Slate Creek's "distribution track" since it serves our off line customers and we 're not about to give up car 78 car loads a year to the truckers..