Terrain Dilemma

[Gary S]

I'll try and get some pics up tomorrow.

we're waiting!

[jim currie]

I'll chip in my two cents worth ,, having used just about every method of construction i tend to go with extruded foam as its easier to change .
jim

[doctorwayne]

I think that plaster on screen is pretty easy to change, too. The "water" in this scene, along with most of the area under the structures was originally just a low spot in the scenery: a throw-away area for which I had no plan. When I decided on the scene shown, I simply mixed up a batch of Durabond and filled in the low area - some of that "water" is over 1" deep.


High ground is pretty easy to change, too. The land under Wagner's Lumber is partly plywood (near the tracks) and partly plaster-on-screen (the higher area towards the backdrop). To "plant" the shed in the centre, I simply drilled holes for as many of the rear pilings as necessary in order to get it level. The shop/office structure on the left, in the rear, was built into the terrain by simply drilling a hole, then using a drywall saw to cut through the hardshell. The parts that were in the way were either removed or pushed down.


My next alteration to the terrain will be when the Farmers Co-op grain elevator in the left distance is moved across the tracks and installed on the far end of the team track, in the empty field at far right. The team track will be extended, necessitating some judicious "hammer time" to level the raised area with the fence posts and greenery.
This will then allow me to extend the siding on the left of the picture, right through the area where the elevator now stands, and ending just outside of Hoffentoth Bros.' coal yard (partially hidden by the elevator).


Simply moving this one structure will allow me to re-arrange all of the customers on this siding, permitting better (and more plausible) road access to Hoffentoth's, and allowing a better way to hide the nearby backdrop. With that taken care of, the rest of the town of Elfrida will be much easier to organise and complete, paving the way for more layout construction. This area has had me stumped for some time.
The other roadblock to layout expansion is the field with the leaning elm, and all the associated fencing required to complete the scene.

Wayne

[tetters]

Geez Wayne, looking at your finished scenes is making me guilty. I really got to get my lazy butt in gear!

The plaster shell is in place on my layout and it looks good so far. I need to fill in some smaller areas towards the top of the grade leading down to the shore line, but think I've figured out how to over come that obstacle, so I'll tackle that tonight. Otherwise I think it is looking good. I've never done this before so I also think that I might be suffering from a mild form of stage fright as well... :oops: I picked up a "dirt" colored latex paint as suggested as well, so perhaps after I've filled in the small gaps I'll give it a shot of paint as recommended and then step back and have a look. I also wanted to get in a couple of small rock faces along the shore line so I'll be experimenting with some Hydrocal to make some rock formations.

No pictures as of yet. But when I have some significant progress to show, I'll get some up.

[doctorwayne]

I understand the trepidation when embarking on something new. While I'd done hardshell before (using dental plaster over screen), my water scenes, bridges, cast plaster bridge piers, use of ground foam, ballasting on a large scale, were all, for me, first-time attempts. Too often we become paralysed by fear of attempting new methods or materials and, in my experience, the longer we put it off, the more difficult it becomes. I've seen nicely-done layouts which lacked only scenery to become magazine-worthy, all because the owner was fearful of making that first attempt. Scenery, for the most part, is inexpensive (compared to trains, track, control methods, and structures at least) and an area where it's difficult to go totally wrong. Mistakes are easy to hide or correct, or, in extreme cases, remove completely. I think that if you expect decent results, you'll achieve them, and in many cases, you may also get results exceeding your expectations. Both of these are very conducive to bolstering confidence and both encourage further forays into the unknown.

Wayne

[Sumpter250]

I understand the trepidation when embarking on something new. While I'd done hardshell before (using dental plaster over screen), my water scenes, bridges, cast plaster bridge piers, use of ground foam, ballasting on a large scale, were all, for me, first-time attempts. Too often we become paralysed by fear of attempting new methods or materials and, in my experience, the longer we put it off, the more difficult it becomes. I've seen nicely-done layouts which lacked only scenery to become magazine-worthy, all because the owner was fearful of making that first attempt. Scenery, for the most part, is inexpensive (compared to trains, track, control methods, and structures at least) and an area where it's difficult to go totally wrong. Mistakes are easy to hide or correct, or, in extreme cases, remove completely. I think that if you expect decent results, you'll achieve them, and in many cases, you may also get results exceeding your expectations. Both of these are very conducive to bolstering confidence and both encourage further forays into the unknown.

Wayne

I might add, that not only is the basic topography scary to start, each detail of scenery.....landform, rock detail, water areas ( still ponds, quiet or flowing rivers, falls ), grasslands, trees, shrubs, etc. are all each scary first times. " Mistakes are easy to hide or correct, or, in extreme cases, remove completely. ".......and in many cases are usually hidden,corrected, or completely removed. If I had a nickel for every "tree" I recycled into "trash can contents".......
On the flip side.....every detail is a new adventure, so the hobby never gets boring!

[Gary S]

Great points from docWayne and S-two-fiddy.

I still must point out that any efforts spent on basic scenery and terrain ain't worth crap if there are no ongoing construction photos posted on big blue!

[tetters]

Great points from docWayne and S-two-fiddy.

I still must point out that any efforts spent on basic scenery and terrain ain't worth crap if there are no ongoing construction photos posted on big blue!

Point taken Gary!

[BR60103]

I was lucky in that the friend I operated with each week guided me through a little bit of scenery plastering on his layout.

[tetters]

Well, last night I finished getting the basic landforms in. As I predicted I used a combination of methods to get some terrain in place. I had some rather tricky tight spots that were giving me some cause for hesitation, but in the end I stumbled on through. A couple of key things I figured out for my self.

1) Durabond is messy. However that should be a given. I am not 100% sold on whether or not I like it for creating landforms however I cannot deny its strength and the fact that you can apply it as thick or as thin as you like. Being able to work it while its wet also has its advantages as you can either smooth it out or rough it up. I took a lot of care using it as I was creating the shoreline right up to the edge of the roadbed for my track and didn't want to get any of it on the track work so I used painters tape to cover all the track work in the vicinity. I also made way too much and ended up throwing out half of the batch I made into a plastic bag. So now I have a big lump of hardened Durabond in a bag. Perhaps I can smash with a small sledge hammer and use it for rip rap?

2) Woodland Scenic's Plaster Cloth was ridiculously easy to use. It almost seemed too easy at first and I thought I had to be doing something wrong. I used it on a small narrow two section to finish up what I started a few nights ago and was pleasantly surprised how easy it was to cut into specific shapes and apply it to some cardboard forms I had cut out put in place. Definitely the material of choice if you need to have absolute control over where your plaster cloth goes. I thoroughly enjoyed using it as a product.

Sorry Gary, still no photos yet. By the time I got done last night I was covered in plaster cloth dust and just wanted to shower and go to bed. However, tonight everything should be fully dried and I can get some pictures snapped off before I start painting or making adjustments to the landscaping in certain areas...

Thanks to everyone for their comments and motivational words. I can actually see where I'm going with this and the creative juices are starting to flow again!

[rrinker]

Wayne's post sums me up nicely. I hav my track almost all done, enough feeders are wired so it runs reliably, so now I am left with scenery. And it does make me nervous. My last try at scenery was over 30 years ago and consisted mainly of painting my N scale layout's table an earth borwn color, painting on some white glue, and sprinking on ground foam. More recently, but still quite a long time ago, I was a member of a club and when I moved I had an L shaped shelf layout, one piece of which I donated to the club to use as a display to attract others to the club location. It was simply a bare shelf board with track on roadbed. My condition was that I would would with the scenery guy so I could learn how to do this stuff, but alas most of it got sceniced when I wasn't around. Being an engineer by temperment and training, I naturally gravitate to wiring and stuff like that. Drawing, outsode of stick figures or mechanical drawing with proper tools, s a skill that eludes me. Picking and matching colors - that too seems to be beyond me.

However, I am determined to not have a simple Pink Prairie layout, and so soon will start at least SOMETHING. My modeled area is basically flat, and not so far away that I can't go look at the real thing and take pictures, although most of what you see today is generic industrial buildings that didn't exist int he 50's era I model. Should be interesting to say the least.

--Randy

[rrinker]

Sorry no pics yet but I didn't have much time to spend on the layout tonight - but what i did was crack open that gallon of mistinted paint I got at Home Depot and painted about 8 feet of the pink foam in the sort of dark brown color this paint is. To properly hide the lettering ont he foam it will take 2 coats, but in like 5 minutes I was able to improve the appearance of one section of my layotu by 500%.
I have that one Woodland Scenics scenery kit that makes up into a small diorama good enough to display a single loco or car - it has a cut, and a culvert under the tracks. I was tempted to grab the ground foam out of it and sprinke some on the wet paint but a) I want to finish that diorama and hopefully get some of this scenery stuff figured out, b) I plan to add some additional terrain maybe iusing a ground goop mixture so everything's not dead flat and c) I just read about the foam soaking up the paint color, I don;t want dark brown grass and weeds.

--Randy

[tetters]

Photos for Gary.







Tonight, I'll be spending the evening painting the new track work. Which is a little tricky since I'll have to tape off the sections of the already painted and ballasted track. I may or may not proceed with painting the terrain right away as I have to seal and repaint the lake bed before I start my attempts at scenery along the shore line.

[nachoman]

Very nice

[doctorwayne]

Tonight, I'll be spending the evening painting the new track work. Which is a little tricky since I'll have to tape off the sections of the already painted and ballasted track. I may or may not proceed with painting the terrain right away as I have to seal and repaint the lake bed before I start my attempts at scenery along the shore line.

I need to pay closer attention. Until seeing your comment, above, I never gave much notice to the fact that the ties weren't painted before you spiked the rail in place. If you need to tape in order to protect what's already in place, it sounds as if you're spraying. Did I miss reading, in the Scarborough thread, why you chose this method? It seems to me that it would not only be easier, but also afford more opportunities for varying the appearance of the ties if you were to stain/paint them after they've been installed and sanded, but before spiking the rails in place. Then, you could brush-paint the rails without having to mask anything - it goes surprisingly quickly, and is a job that can be done, bit by bit, even if you only have 15 or 20 minutes to spare every once in a while. No masking, no airbrush to clean: seal up the paint, rinse out the brush, and wipe the top of the rails to remove any dry, but not yet hardened, paint.
"Water" and the adjacent scenery can be a bit of a "chicken or the egg" scenario. I made the mistake of scenicing the areas adjacent to most of my water features before installing the water - this was a conscious (okay...semi-conscious ) decision because I was worried that the white glue which I used to affix ground cover would leach out onto the water's surface, dulling the finish. There was also the chance that it would carry scenic foam, too, creating pond scum on what was supposed to be moving water. There was quite a bit of glue run-off, mostly from areas where the scenic material was very deep - areas of loose rip-rap, with cinders and ballast used to fill the voids. Not much of the solid material was carried with the glue, though, and not an excessive amount of ground foam, either. The thin application of Durabond used to create the water would cover it easily, so my decision to scenic first seemed a good one. So good, in fact, that I proceeded to plant trees along the banks - these are simple homemade ones using polyfibre over twig armatures, sprayed with cheap hairspray and then sprinkled with successive applications of ground foam. They looked pretty good to me, and really made the scene look more....well, scenic.
However, I must've done an even better job of tree-making than I realised: when I got around to creating the actual "water", I discover that my trees were so realistic that they began losing leaves, just like real ones do. This was a minor nuisance during application of the plaster, but became more bothersome during painting and was an issue when the three coats of high gloss clear urethane were applied. The Maitland River didn't fare too badly, but Chippawa Creek has more floating foliage than I'd like.
I still have one major river to complete, and it will be done in a slightly different order: ground cover first, followed by water, with trees installed after the water has been completed. This is probably a better choice regardless of what you use to create the water.
Don't forget, when you're painting those "snow-covered" landforms, to carry some of the same colour down into the area where the water will be: unless the shore area is rock (like northern Ontario) there'll be at least some shallow water near the shore.

Wayne