CPR Engine House

[P5se Camelback]

It looks as if the walls are sheathed with drop siding applied over t&g boards, with tarpaper between the two. There's a good chance that the tongue and groove boards are applied diagonally.
I'm curious as to the purpose (and placement) of those four "chimneys on brackets", though: they appear to connect to nothing. Perhaps there were woodstoves connected to them? I certainly wouldn't want to be the guy cutting firewood to heat that barn!
Wayne

I, too, noticed the note referring to the "drop siding applied over t&g boards, with tarpaper between the two" and assumed that it referred to external sheathing, the tar paper used as a weather barrier. IIRC, the use of T&G was a fairly common method of under-layment for walls, both interior and exterior, on wood framed structures back around the turn of the last century.

As I look at the plan views, It seems that (now it was almost forty years ago that I worked between and after class and all summer in an architect's office to help pay my way through Philadelphia College of Art) if there was some sort of sheathing on the interior of those mighty 2x6 studs, it would have been represented by a double line for a single layer or even a triple line, indicating two layers ... sheathing has thickness, and it is indicated that way on the exterior sheathing, somewhat more readable on the rear wall.

I could be wrong ... God knows it has happened once or twice over all these years ... possibly three times.

Maybe even four times.

It may have even occurred as many as five, or even six times.

I might even admit to the possibility that I may have been wrong as many as seven or eight times.

I do recall my former wife actually writing it on the calendar one time when I admitted that I was wrong!

EDIT: Tongue firmly in cheek throughout!

[MasonJar]

Most definately Russ. The large stacks in the track centers were used for steam engines. The ones that Wayne and I are referring to are the four small brick chimneys at each corner of the structure and they were more then likely used for wood burning stoves to heat the interior during the colder months.

I agree Galen, an interior shot would be useful indeed. Got any?

Anyways back to building... Got to finish a couple more doors and then start on the front wall sections.

If your engine house is in the east, the stoves may have run on coal, same as the engines. In the west, it was more common for whatever reason to have oil-burners, in which case, the stoves might be coal or wood fired. Bunker oil would be too thick for a stove I think. (All this holds more true for CNR, not so sure about CPR practices).

Interior shots of CNR roundhouses in Ian Wilson's Steam... books show a minimal amount of finishing was applied. No interior sheathing for the most part, and the walls were black up to about 4 - 6 feet, with the remainder and ceiling whitewashed to improve light levels. That is why I was surprised that there don't appear to be any windows on the one wall. This makes me think that the section through the wall as illustrated is low (below window height) to show the stud spacing. On the "south" wall, it is sectioned through the windows to show their placement. Electric lighting was not common at the turn of the last century, so large windows to admit light were essential.

Lastly - need some pictures...!

Andrew

[Sumpter250]

"Russ Bellinis" wrote, "Could those chimneys have been used to exhaust steam and soot from a steam engine that was fired up inside the engine house? They appear to be at the end of the house in the track centers."

Most definately Russ. The large stacks in the track centers were used for steam engines. The ones that Wayne and I are referring to are the four small brick chimneys at each corner of the structure and they were more then likely used for wood burning stoves to heat the interior during the colder months.

I'd be more likely to expect "stovepipe stacks" for the wood burning stoves, than brick. The drawing states," Chimney on brackets 8" X 8" flue, and also show horizontal lines, with no verticals. I suspect they are wood "boxes" with insulation inside, and the 8 X 8 flues inside the insulation. The interior side view shows a circle, and a rectangle on the "inside" face.
The assemblies sit exactly between wall studs. They could have had two different "feeder pipes", indicating possibly one (round one) for a stovepipe, and one ( rectangular ) to vent something else, possibly what the large ones didn't take care of. the two large round ones were for locomotive exhaust.
I like the "tension rods" and turnbuckles, on the doors.
There appears to be no interior sheathing on the "window" walls either.
DrWayne wrote: "It looks as if the walls are sheathed with drop siding applied over t&g boards, with tarpaper between the two. There's a good chance that the tongue and groove boards are applied diagonally."
The note's "arrow" points to the exterior wall only.
I haven't even thought about diagonally applied T&G sheathing boards, since helping my father sheath the kitchen extension on the house I grew up in. that would be an excellent added detail for the model !!
One question....."Drop siding", would that be like clapboard ?, or something else? It's a term I've never heard before.

[rrinker]

Could those chimneys been for forges?

--Randy

[P5se Camelback]

"Drop Siding" = building siding with a shiplap joint.

[MasonJar]

I'd be more likely to expect "stovepipe stacks" for the wood burning stoves, than brick. The drawing states," Chimney on brackets 8" X 8" flue, and also show horizontal lines, with no verticals. I suspect they are wood "boxes" with insulation inside, and the 8 X 8 flues inside the insulation. The interior side view shows a circle, and a rectangle on the "inside" face.
The assemblies sit exactly between wall studs. They could have had two different "feeder pipes", indicating possibly one (round one) for a stovepipe, and one ( rectangular ) to vent something else, possibly what the large ones didn't take care of. the two large round ones were for locomotive exhaust.

Sounds reasonable. I owned an old house that had a chimney that started on the second floor. It had two places to tie in stovepipes and I would guess that the rectangle in the drawing corresponds to the clean-out hatch I had on my chinmey.

This arrangement would allow the stoves to be placed where needed, with "bare" pipes running through the building allowing further heating. My house had several portals between rooms and between floors to allow for this.

Andrew

[Sumpter250]

I owned an old house that had a chimney that started on the second floor. It had two places to tie in stovepipes and I would guess that the rectangle in the drawing corresponds to the clean-out hatch I had on my chinmey.

This arrangement would allow the stoves to be placed where needed, with "bare" pipes running through the building allowing further heating. My house had several portals between rooms and between floors to allow for this.

Andrew

Well, There you have it ! The "clean out hatch" makes all the sense in the world. I have never seen this kind of "chimney" before, so wouldn't have known about the hatch.

Andrew, was your chimney brick ??, or some other construction.

[tetters]

Wow! I get tied up for a few days and the thread just comes alive! Lots of good information here.

Couple things I'm going to take with me based on the input rec'd from everyone.

1) I'll scribe 45 degree diagonal lines in the interior side of the exposed walls to simulate the T & G sheathing. This will undoubtedly make the interior views very interesting indeed.

2) As I suspected, I was planning on painting the lower 4 feet of the walls black and then a white wash for everything else above 4 feet. The advice that this was done to enhance lighting levels helped with this decision. At first I was just going to paint the interior completely gray or white, but I like the idea of the lower portion painted black... it makes sense. As for lighting I do plan on lighting the interior so stay tuned for that.

3) I agree with the idea that the chimney stacks were fed by stove pipes from a central oil burning stove So for that added detail I'll do some research and see what kind of oil furnace may have been used to heat a structure of this size. Running the stove pipes along the wall to distribute the "heat" also makes a lot of sense.


I will apologize right now. I don't have any progress pictures to share, even though I have been working on the model a bit here and there. One problem I think I've already encountered is the size of the door openings. I measured them correctly, however with the test fitting of the doors, its a bit tight for my GP7. We are talking scale inches on either size which means I'll have to be bang on dead accurate or otherwise this won't work. I think what I will need to do is give myself a bit more room at the front, and widen the openings, by about 6 scale inches. Nothing too wide, but enough to allow for some margin of error if I don't center the openings over the tracks properly, just in case.

So I'll be re doing those.

I'll also be redoing the doors them selves as I laminated the card stock details on the doors they got too thick. Don't forget I'm applying the interior details as well and those details will be showing of the doors are open and closed.

The up side is I managed to finish the # 6 Wye last night. But I figured you guys are bored with my track work, so I'll post a photo of that when its adhered to the model base and ready to be ballasted.

I've been incredibly busy the last several days, with family stuff, work and other life stuff, plus our first Spring Club Train Show was last Sunday and I had some family up to come and check us out. Our president found a video of the layout shot during our Fall showing on November 27th, 2010 that someone posted on Youtube the other night. I'll post a link in the General Discussion forum.

Thanks for the comments guys they help me a lot.

Shane

[MasonJar]

Andrew, was your chimney brick ??, or some other construction.

It was brick. It was built into/onto what was originally the outside wall. It became an inside wall when the house was extended shortly after building. The "working parts" of the chimney started only at the second floor, about 4 feet above floor level.


Andrew

[Sumpter250]

Andrew, That makes sense. I guess the reason I asked is that the chimneys in the engine house drawing, indicate "on brackets" which, even at their height, would be a heavy load for "brackets" if they were brick.
Insulated flues, with a wood casing seems the more practical approach.........and not a bad detail either.

Tetters, It's going to be fun watching this project.....shootink ze peektures !!!, lots of them, please.

[tetters]

Aye Aye Mon Capeetin!!

So where do I start? A bit about the materials. As mentioned I am using card stock more aptly named cereal box for this build. I generally have three thicknesses (what an awkward word?) to use which will more then suit my purposes. I'll also use strip wood for some of the supporting structure, but I will be relying mostly on the card stock.

I have cereal box from a Jumbo sized box of Cheerios. The card board from this box is heavy. Which I will serve as the basis for the walls. The second or medium thickness is the usual thickness of card board found from a say a Quaker Chewy Granola Bars box or in this case some Oreo Cakesters. , The last and thinnest kind is from commercially available card stock my wife picked up a Micheal's a while back. It's slightly heavier then paper and will be primarily used for the building's siding. 10x posts will be made from the appropriate sized strip wood.

Here are a couple of shots of the "south" wall and the back walls for the engine house. These were cut from the Jumbo Cheerios Box.




So A few nights ago I made a go of the doors. I initially thought I may have to scrap these and build new ones, however a reassessment of their size has shown I have nothing to worry about. There is about six scale inches on either side of the loco when I did my test fit. Something tells me they made the openings just wide enough to accommodate their engines. Here is some pictures of the work so far.




The second shot shows the interior trim and bracing. Some one mentioned the tie rod in the plans. That detail as well as the hinges and the bolt details will be added just after I give the doors their first initial very light coats of primer. Then I'll see about adding them and won't attach them until I'm ready to do some final assembly. The doors will be painted oxide red, the hinges and tie rods will be painted black, so I'd like to add them at the end.

I started building one of the door openings and got as far as putting the 10 x posts on the interior side and some siding. The 6" strip around the opening is there to support the 9" trim that will go around the opening to create a finished look. I am shooting for a clean look where there are no exposed siding or wall ends when I finish this Barn Build.




The siding is cut to a scale 12" wide and then overlapped a little at each joint, probably about a scale 2 - 3 inches. In order to check my consistency from one side of the door to the other, about every four or fifth piece I attached I would grab a small square, and check to see if the bottom of the siding strip lined up with the other side. The occasional adjustment was made to get things back in order, but I mostly did it by eye. I also allowed the siding over hang off the edge. I would wait until the glue dried and then cut it flush from the back side using a very sharp #11 X-acto blade.



Once I cut the cut the 12" strips from the gray card stock I would roughly cut the length I needed and prepare to glue the siding in place.



Nothing fancy. A small drop of yellow glue and a tooth pick as an applicator.



A small amount of glue is placed on the wall just above the last piece of siding...



...and the new piece is carefully picked up with the tip of my # 11 blade and placed on the wall.



In a short while the siding is complete for this Door Opening.

Finish off the door I cut a 9" strip from the Cakesters Box and scuff the printed side of the piece lightly with some sandpaper. This removes the shiny coating and helps the piece glue better. I apply a small amount of glue to the 6 inch strips and then cut the individual 9" trim pieces to fit the opening and hide the exposed siding edges.







Voila! Finished! By this time the glue has dried sufficiently that I can trim the excess siding flush with the edge of the wall.

That's all for tonight.

[ocalicreek]

Oh, THAT'S all. Wow! Great start to an exciting build. I LOVE working with cardstock. It's a very forgiving material and is easily worked into many materials. Just watch out for fuzzies when you begin painting. It may take a few applications of painting, de-fuzzing, and painting again to get it properly sealed and hardened.

Looking forward to more!



Galen

[Ralph]

Cereal box cardstock? Excellent!!!!!! Looking forward to watching this take shape!
Ralph

[tetters]

Thanks for the kudos guys. I'll do my best to make this a good one. Part of the process for me involves time just looking a parts and experimenting with the best way to assemble them. I finished the other door opening last night and then spent the better part of the evening pondering how I would go about joining the walls together after I've painted them. I have pretty much figured that out. Then there is the windows. It would be easy to just plug them into the openings with some CA, but I think what I'll do is cement a card stock frame around them to create a window sill of sorts and then glue them into the openings. Another step to create a finished look that I'll try to get around to during the weekend.

I also think the idea of scribing the diagonal lines in the interior portion of the wall would be a fruitless exercise. I scribed some lines and didn't want to press to hard. However, the lines are so faint that I fear once painted they will not show up. I could try scribing the lines after painting but by that time, I'll have painstakingly glued the 2x6 studs in place and trying to scribe T&G boards into the wall would just be a pain. I nice detail, but I doesn't look I'll be able to get unless some one here can give me a idea?

I'll soon be off for a week with the kids during March Break. I hope to make some major headway on this during that time off. Tonight though, I am sipping some Neo Citrin and trying to clear my sinuses... stupid winter... been great all season and just last night I came down with a cold. Meanwhile the unfinished E.H. sits just five feet away, its walls in a pile and all my tools to make it waiting for the next round of assembly.

[Russ Bellinis]

Perhaps an extrafine pen with black ink, and just draw the lines in after the paint has dried before assembly. If your studs are installed and are set on a standard center, a triangle cut to fit between the studs could be used as a straight edge to guide the lines.