CTU spur Alaska
#31
Ralph Wrote:
wsor4490uk Wrote:Thanks Gents

Matt
The warehouse and bridge are foam board. I used a black bic to mark the joints then sprayed it with Rust-oleum textured desert bisque

That's excellent! A simple technique that yielded great results! Thumbsup
Ralph

I always hesitate to buy this stuff at the hardware store. Looks worth a try!

Matt
Proudly modelling Quebec Railway Light & Power Company since 1997.

Hedley-Junction Club Layout: http://www.hedley-junction.blogspot.com/

Erie 149th Street Harlem Station http://www.harlem-station.blogspot.com/
Reply
#32
As my head is a little tender today and I seem to of slept a lot ?..I haven't done anything on the layout, so I thought I'd try and explain the industries and rail service on the layout

1. Frontier Papers Inc - 3 spots - This is the large warehouse which receives paper products in foregin railroad boxcars from the lower 48 once a week. Each loading door is numbered and cars needs to be spotted at as requested by the customer.

2. Alaska Feed and Seed - 2 spots - They take one car of feed at a time (though two will fit). Most of the cars are foreign, though both of the blue and yellow ARR covered hoppers (ARR 14101 & 14100) cycles back and forth from elevators in Washington or Oregon

3. Bobs Services Inc. - 1 spot - They do not ship or receive anything, but rather do contract railcar repair for the railroad.
Any type of car that needs repairing can been seen here.

4. The two track yard can take up to seven cars and is used to hold any off-spot cars

The industries are serviced as required by the Anchorage yard job. Power is usually a single MP15 or a GP38-2 but sometimes a GP40 can be used.
The loop,which is the otherside of the overpass is also the fiddle yard/staging area and this allows me to stage the train in the right order, with cars for Frontier Papers in front of the loco and any cars for Alaska Seed and Feed or Bobs Services attacted to the rear Inc before it arrives on the layout. Any off-spot cars are placed on the front of the train so they can be left in the yard.

Should any of the customers require their off-spot cars during the day, a call is placed to the yard at Anchorage and when available a light engine is dispatched to swap the cars around.

Sometimes (just for fun) a caboose is added to the train ...
Chris
England
Reply
#33
Chris

as others have said - very impressive in quality already and speed!

Now I know I shouldnt model the model but can you give us the basic dimensions of the warehouse please? i.e. panel size in particular. And what thickness of board is best for this kind of use - I suppose the question is really how thick is this kind of panel or even what looks best? Thanks in advance
Reply
#34
PhilM Wrote:Now I know I shouldnt model the model but can you give us the basic dimensions of the warehouse please? i.e. panel size in particular. And what thickness of board is best for this kind of use - I suppose the question is really how thick is this kind of panel or even what looks best? Thanks in advance

Phil
The model is based on Frontier Papers Inc seen athttp://maps.google.com/maps?q=alaska&hl=...,0.19&z=16

But didn't end up looking like it, I think the doors are to big Wallbang
It was difficult to measure because of the the angle google maps camera

Here's some of shots of before and after putting it through Paintshop pro.

   
   
   
   





My building is 997.5 mm or 285 feet long and the panels are 49 mm or 14 feet wide with a 1mm biro line between them. its stands 96mm or 27 1/2 feet tall. I also noticed that the end panel were not as large as the as the main panels.
On the real building it has four loading doors but I've just gone for three.
I'm not sure how to do the writing yet, I might just make a sign..

I used 3mm form board for the walls and roof with 5mm form board for the base and braces.
This it my first attempt at scratch building ....
The idea came after seeing a good friend of mine, Steve Williams's warehouse.
As you can see I'm not an exact scale modeller I just try and get the feel for the place.
Chris
England
Reply
#35
It seems to me that for the sign, you could crop an image of the warehouse with the writing and logo in it and play with the contrast on the Windows photo manager until you got just a pure black and white image. Then you could re-color the logo, make sure it was the right size, and print it out on clear decal paper.
Reply
#36
I just tried it in photoshop, way too low resolution on a google map image to work. If the company has a website, you might find a cleaner copy of the logo.

I would print all the walls on photo paper and laminate it to the bldg.
Reply
#37
Chris;

Not only a fast builder but as usual great results. Wish I could get quality work out as fast!

Question for you: Operation...
Can you elaborate on the operation of the layout for me please.

Your mate from Down-Under
Andrew Martin
Regards
Andrew Martin
Visit the blog and the small layout design site: https://huntervalleylines.wordpress.com
For modelling articles and gallery (click Website button below)
Reply
#38
Operation...
Can you elaborate on the operation of the layout for me please?

Martin, Happy New Year.
The operation is very much linked to the design of the track plan. As the layout is for exhibition not a home, the way it has been designed to operate reflects what I’ve learnt from Haston (my last layout) and the others layouts I’ve exhibited. I’m not saying these are hard and fast rules, but things that I’ve noticed when exhibiting my small layouts.

1. 80% of the British exhibition goers are not interested in American layouts, they just walk right past. That’s fine, each to their own.
2. There is no need to have a great-complicated set of moves planned out with switch lists and like, because 80% of the 20% exhibition goers who do stop and look at the layout only stay for a few minutes. All they want to see is something moving.
So once they have moved away from the layout I can start the move all over again.
3. Of the 20% who do stay and watch longer, 80% will start up a conversation. So if I do have a switch-list to work to, I soon lose where I am if I’m talking to them and I’d rather be talking, with something be moving on the layout, than keep stopping to look down at a list to follow.

Haston was built around these ideas, but it had a couple of operational shortfalls that I wanted to improve on, these being:

• I didn’t like the way the freight cars would appear on the layout. They were pushed on from behind some trees with the loco on the rear. I know it is quite normal practice in the States for a loco to shove a load of cars up a branch line because there is no run round at the end but there was something about it that didn't look right on Haston , but I also don’t like very short run round loops
Towards the end of Haston’s time I just kept the freight cars on the layout and never used the fiddle yard. No one ever said don’t the cars go somewhere…
• Over a nine-month period I operated Haston at eight shows for a total of 17 days, which works out at over 100 hours of switching three sidings. Oh! how I wished to switch a siding facing the other way.


Now, I’ve noticed on a number of forums both in the UK and overseas, there is a growing view, by some so called experts, that all sidings should be facing to the same way because that’s what the real railroad does, you shouldn’t have sidings flying off in all directions, or a siding where you have to pull spotted cars out, so you can server a customer at the far end.
I’ve even heard it said, that the railroad would make up their train with all the cars in the correct order in the yard before they set off, so they can just drop off cars without the need for complicated switch moves down the line so as to not waste time or fuel…(I can understand that's how a railroad manager would like it to happen)

Well (insert a rude word here) …… to that.

These people can not have ever studied Google maps and must live in a perfect world far removed from mine, where cock-ups never happens. And how boring must their railroad be to operate!!!(if they’ve ever built one)

The APU spur is a prime example of real world operation. It has three turnouts, two facing and one tailing.
(so that's blown the first idea out of the water)

The end of the track has three customers served on the one track.
As it says on the web site, if you have to switch out an Emerald car depending on what else is on spot you might have to switch through cars on spot for Weaver, BSI, & CEI!
To make it worse, the only place you have to make a switch to reverse the order of cars is the Katmai spur. If it is occupied or out of service for some reason you would have to run all the way back out to the mainline (over a mile) to line up your cars and then shove them all the way back where they belong.

This is just a one-mile long branch, in one city, in one State. How many places must this type of operation, be duplicated across the United States of America? There is a prototype for everything; people have just got to look for it.

Ok, time to get off my soapbox and back to question in hand.

I wanted the easy of operation, of a fan of siding, (so I didn’t have to think to much) as per Haston
Remove as much as possible, the sight of cars being pushed on to the layout.
Have sidings running to opposite directions.

This is all possible with the track plan for my CTU spur, (which by the way comes from Seville Ave Los Angeles, CA http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=34.00264...src=0&z=19 not Alaska but that’s other story…)

The way I see the layout will operate is, there will be 2-3 boxcars in the yard and possibly one spotted at the warehouse. These will be swapped around between yard and warehouse doors 1 2 and 3. I guest this will take 10 to 15 minutes to complete.
Once I’ve had enough of that, the loco would head off in to the fiddle yard/staging siding and couple up to a hopper car for the seed mill and may be a car for repair at BSI, reappear on the layout and then swap them out with any cars on those spots.
I’ve tried this move a couple of times and it also take between 10 to 15 minutes
Add together waiting for the grade crossing lights to work and the fact that there isn’t all ways someone watching the layout, it could be up to 45 minutes before I start the whole process again.

This also means, stock wise I only need four boxcars, two hoppers and a couple of cars for BSI, if I add a spare for each industry,in total I only 11 cars.

Another thing I’ve leant is, it does become boring running the same stock show after show, so this year instead of buying any more locos for the layout (currently I have a GP38 two GP40’s and I’ve a MP15 on order), I’m going to build up my stock of freight car and take a different set to each show. As I’ve got three shows or 5 days this year I reckon I need 55 new cars….
Chris
England
Reply
#39
Hi Chris,

Like Andrew I was also interested to see how you would operate the layout without a run-around track. I've always been fascinated by the operation
of small switching layouts and I'm one of those who'll stop to watch and engage in conversation with the operator at a exhibition.I agree with all your comments with regard to UK exhibitions.

Although my Palmetto Spur operates quite prototypically shoving cars into the spurs, I do miss watching a train arrive with the loco on the point and then switching spurs in both facing and trailing
directions. I will be aiming to arrange this on my next layout and your layout has given me food for thought. Do I include a run around track or not ......

Looking forward to seeing more of your layout.


regards,

Mal
Layout videos - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/user/Alcanman1">http://www.youtube.com/user/Alcanman1</a><!-- m -->

New Westbrook <!-- l --><a class="postlink-local" href="http://bigbluetrains.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8888">viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8888</a><!-- l -->
Reply
#40
The word repeated vertically in the center of the logo in yellow appears to be "PAPER."
Reply
#41
Wow...nice work! I'm looking for reasons to run an Alaskan engine on my Southern lines...and you're layout just might be the trigger. I've always liked the Alaskan paint job.
Mark

Citation Latitude Captain
--and--
Lt Colonel, USAF (Retired)
Reply
#42
Happy new year to you also Chris.

Thanks for the feedback on operations on the new layout. It is always interesting to see the difference between exhibition and home layout design philosophy.
wsor4490uk Wrote:
  • 1. 80% of the British exhibition goers are not interested in American layouts, they just walk right past. That’s fine, each to their own.
    2. There is no need to have a great-complicated set of moves planned out with switch lists and like, because 80% of the 20% exhibition goers who do stop and look at the layout only stay for a few minutes. All they want to see is something moving. So once they have moved away from the layout I can start the move all over again.
    3. Of the 20% who do stay and watch longer, 80% will start up a conversation. So if I do have a switch-list to work to, I soon lose where I am if I’m talking to them and I’d rather be talking, with something be moving on the layout, than keep stopping to look down at a list to follow.

It is interesting to see the difference between the english "general public's" attitude toward USA themed layouts versus the locally themed one. In Australia when I was growing up during the 1970's the club owned USA styled layout with SP Black Widowed schemed diesels and long trains were predominant. Specifically the Prospect Model Railway Club comes to mind in Sydney's west. The English layout with Black Fives and Brittania's were easy to do too due to the ready to run models available. The local prototype however was in short supply.
Only those with the skills to scratchbuild or to kitbash had anything remotely close to Australian prototype running.

This to some degree still exists with the predominance of UK themed (mainly British ex-pats) and the odd BRMA (British Railway Modellers of Australia) member's layout being easier to make and exhibit off the shelf than Australian themed layouts that require more kit building and or a larger cash outlay. WHen added to the fact that Australian trains are not available as starter sets from Hornby, Bachmann, etc you can see where the new bloke on the block will start with something he can get as a package and build from there. It is how I started.

Quote:Haston ... had a couple of operational shortfalls that I wanted to improve on, these being:
the way freight cars would appear on the layout. They were pushed on [to the layout ]from behind some trees with the loco on the rear. Quite normal practice in the States for a loco to shove a load of cars up a branch line because there is no run round at the end.

I've not designed and built a layout for exhibition. So your insight into aspect of the hobby this is greatly appreciated. The ones that seem to hold the attention of the folks here are the through station types, with lots of traffic, running to no specific timetable, and so on. You are correct in that it is all about movement for the paying public. For the remainder (train nuts) it is all about operation, quality of modelling, scenery, or whatever is your particluar field in the hobby. I think that this holds for us nots even when we are in a different country, society or culture.

Quote:Now, I’ve noticed on a number of forums both in the UK and overseas, there is a growing view, by some so called experts, that all sidings should be facing to the same way because that’s what the real railroad does, you shouldn’t have sidings flying off in all directions, or a siding where you have to pull spotted cars out, so you can server a customer at the far end.
If you mean, to put a face on this current trend "Lance Mindheim", I must agree. There are several railroads that bear no resemblence to the current "taste" of layout designs with switching only in mind. Many railroads in the US north west have facing and trailing switches all over the place. It is mostly the newer laid tracks into industrial switching areas that feature the "Inglenook" style of all facing, or all trailing switches. Yet even in these environments there appears to be a creeping side effect of customers needing trailing or facing points that run counter to the remainder of the switching plant.

Quote:I’ve even heard it said, that the railroad would make up their train with all the cars in the correct order in the yard before they set off, so they can just drop off cars without the need for complicated switch moves down the line so as to not waste time or fuel…(I can understand that's how a railroad manager would like it to happen

Generally it is true that everything is blocked in station order, but there is not enough time to block every train in the order for switching by spur. When they can do that railroads can stop employing thinkers and doers, and simply employ doers at half the cost.

Quote:The APU spur is a prime example of real world operation. It has three turnouts, two facing and one tailing.
(so that's blown the first idea out of the water)
I find that one of the benefits of modelling from prototype track layouts is that no matter what happens, so long as you stay true to the real track plan you can never go wrong with the nit-pickers. I might vary from their operating plan somewhat due to space contraints or the section that I am modelling, but the general plan is still in place.

Quote:To make it worse, the only place you have to make a switch to reverse the order of cars is the Katmai spur. If it is occupied or out of service for some reason you would have to run all the way back out to the mainline (over a mile) to line up your cars and then shove them all the way back where they belong.
The joys of real railroading. Nothing is ever as easy as it seems on paper. There was a spur off the UP mainline in Austin that ran for about 6 miles out toward the old Bergstrom Airforce base that had in the past served the company I worked for Sysco Foodservice & then US Foodservice. There was one passing siding about a mile from the end of the line. Trains worked their way up to the siding, switching all the trailing sidings on the way. After being turned at the run-around, and with mostly empty cars, the facing point sidings were switched (trailing on the way out) on the retrun to the mainline. The entry off the mainline was facing for North-bound trains.

Without the run-around siding there was no means to serve the facing switch customers. Railroads do only what they needed to do. If there were no customers with switches in the reverse direction they'd have put that run-around out of service in a heartbeat. And the train would have had to push back the entire 5-6 miles to the main with a conductor riding the end of the train as it crossed several grade crossings along the way, one of them the frontage road for I-35 (north and south bound) at Ben White Blvd in South Austin, TX.

Quote:This is just a one-mile long branch, in one city, in one State. How many places must this type of operation, be duplicated across the United States of America? There is a prototype for everything; people have just got to look for it.
There is one railroad that I found in an MTI #80 that Shortliner Jack sent me a while back that is a half mile long and serves the largest Marshmallow plant (Kraft) in the mid west. I have doodled the track and the industries to see what could be managed if you modelled it to full scale length. You can see some of the data here: http://www.huntervalleylines.com/gallery...p?album=27.

I've not drawn a layout for this one yet, as I want a few more pictures from Bing before I do so. Even here there is a run-around, two facing and two trailing spurs and a long siding with three industries on it. So there are many of these out there. Mostly, thank the train gods, are run by shortlines.

I love the new layout by the way, looking forward to seeing more as it completes and then hearing more about it as it is shown over the next year or so.

With regards Andrew 790_smiley_picking_a_fight Thumbsup
Regards
Andrew Martin
Visit the blog and the small layout design site: https://huntervalleylines.wordpress.com
For modelling articles and gallery (click Website button below)
Reply
#43
One thing big RR's do is put Power on the front & trailing to switch either way!
Reply
#44
kamerad47 Wrote:One thing big RR's do is put Power on the front & trailing to switch either way!

Not just the big guys either. Progressive Rail run two switchers at either end of the park for switching services. This allows the train crew to swap engines rather than run around their train, especially where there is no run around.

For an idea of what I mean go to the the following link: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.progressiverail.com/photos.html">http://www.progressiverail.com/photos.html</a><!-- m -->
Choose photo 02. You'l notice switches in both directions, a crossover and inglenooks. It's all there to serve the customer.
Regards
Andrew Martin
Visit the blog and the small layout design site: https://huntervalleylines.wordpress.com
For modelling articles and gallery (click Website button below)
Reply
#45
Whilst that may be true, the actual CPU spur in Anchorage, Ak uses a single switcher for the job
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)