New Jersey railroad news
#1
I was searching for the derailment here:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/communities/atlantic-city_pleasantville_brigantine/two-lanes-of-atlantic-city-expressway-to-remain-closed-after/article_796b9c1a-6a0d-11e1-8f16-001871e3ce6c.html">http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/comm ... 3ce6c.html</a><!-- m -->

and found this -- another rail service closing down Sad Sad
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/industries/apnewsbreak-casinos-ending-new-york-city-to-atlantic-city-luxury-express-train-service/2012/03/09/gIQAbuqL1R_story.html">http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/ ... story.html</a><!-- m -->
~~ Mikey KB3VBR (Admin)
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~~ Baldwin Eddystone Unofficial Website

~~ I wonder what that would look like in 1:20.3???
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#2
Something there just doesn't add up. Casinos started that service to bring gamblers to their doors. When people gamble they make money, that's the whole idea behind bringing people there by train that would not normally come there. Most casinos around here have free bus service and I doubt that they'll stop service just because there's no income from it. I can't believe that they ever intended to make a profit on their train service other than that which they get from gambling, food and shows. They have 90 to 100% ridership that brings people there to spend big bucks, so something just doesn't add up. :? :?
Don (ezdays) Day
Board administrator and
founder of the CANYON STATE RAILROAD
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#3
ezdays Wrote:Something there just doesn't add up. Casinos started that service to bring gamblers to their doors. When people gamble they make money, that's the whole idea behind bringing people there by train that would not normally come there. Most casinos around here have free bus service and I doubt that they'll stop service just because there's no income from it. I can't believe that they ever intended to make a profit on their train service other than that which they get from gambling, food and shows. They have 90 to 100% ridership that brings people there to spend big bucks, so something just doesn't add up. :? :?

Leave it to an engineer to read between the lines Eek Goldth Goldth Goldth Goldth

Here is the reason - Profits have been down for over a year, across the board, since Casinos have opened in neighboring states (PA & DE).. there is one 2 miles from me...
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They just can't afford to put more money into a rail line that does not bring that many people in.
~~ Mikey KB3VBR (Admin)
~~ NARA Member # 75    
~~ Baldwin Eddystone Unofficial Website

~~ I wonder what that would look like in 1:20.3???
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#4
ngauger Wrote:and found this -- another rail line closing down Sad Sad

False. New Jersey Transit will still serve Atlantic City. All that's ending is the direct New York to Atlantic City "ACES" service subsidized by the casinos.
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#5
Thanks Smile I updated the post to "Service" closing down Smile
~~ Mikey KB3VBR (Admin)
~~ NARA Member # 75    
~~ Baldwin Eddystone Unofficial Website

~~ I wonder what that would look like in 1:20.3???
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#6
ngauger Wrote:
ezdays Wrote:Something there just doesn't add up. Casinos started that service to bring gamblers to their doors. When people gamble they make money, that's the whole idea behind bringing people there by train that would not normally come there. Most casinos around here have free bus service and I doubt that they'll stop service just because there's no income from it. I can't believe that they ever intended to make a profit on their train service other than that which they get from gambling, food and shows. They have 90 to 100% ridership that brings people there to spend big bucks, so something just doesn't add up. :? :?

Leave it to an engineer to read between the lines Eek Goldth Goldth Goldth Goldth

Here is the reason - Profits have been down for over a year, across the board, since Casinos have opened in neighboring states (PA & DE).. there is one 2 miles from me...
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.pechanga.net/category/issue-tag/atlantic-city-revenue">http://www.pechanga.net/category/issue- ... ty-revenue</a><!-- m -->

They just can't afford to put more money into a rail line that does not bring that many people in.
Still, as a business person, I'd look at it as an investment, not a revenue source. If it brings in a few hundred people that wouldn't come otherwise, then there's where the profit is. Yeah, business is bad all over and a lot of businesses look for other ways to increase their customer base. Some do dumb things like increase prices while lowering quality and expect to increase profit that way. Then they wonder why the have lost customers. To me, cutting service doesn't make sense for that reason. But then again, who am I to tell a multi-billion dollar enterprise how to run things? Icon_lol
Don (ezdays) Day
Board administrator and
founder of the CANYON STATE RAILROAD
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#7
It's worth pointing out that Amtrak earlier ran trains to Atlantic City but discountinued them after a fairly short time, too. And there's endless talk about running passenger trains from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, either under Amtrak auspices, under some sort of private-casino consortium deal (similar to ACES), or even as a bullet-train project, but it never quite happens. (Amtrak discontinued its Desert Wind from LA to Salt Lake City via Las Vegas in 1992, for that matter.)

I assume that the casinos know what they're doing in comping high rollers, or they wouldn't do it. But comping high rollers with rooms and perks apparently isn't the same thing as comping train trips, is all I can figure. Train service to casinos just doesn't seem to pan out.

For that matter, I've read that the NJT Atlantic City servce, along with the River Line diesel light rail, is a crumb thrown to South Jersey to make up for all the money going to North Jersey NJT.
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#8
" The ACES train never made money in its three years of existence. On Friday, the three casinos that paid for the service said they are ending it for good."
Profit, is the lifeblood of business ----------------------------------------------------- Greed, is the executioner.

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#9
That's my point, I guess it depends on the intent on starting it. Did they plan on making a profit on the rail service or was it to bring hoards of low rollers to the casinos? Around here you can catch a free ride to an Indian casino, or if you want, Pay $10 to catch one up to Laughlin, NV and get the same back in casino play plus discounts on food. If they weren't bringing in the players, then I guess I can see shutting down the rail service. The buses here must be doing OK, they've been running for years...
Don (ezdays) Day
Board administrator and
founder of the CANYON STATE RAILROAD
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#10
On the old topic....

I don't know why the death of this train comes as such a shock. The tickets for it were outragous (a few hundred bucks). there was one part of one bi-level coach that was regular "coach" seating. Everything else cost significantly higher.

These trains ran empty more often then not. It was not just a "profitless" service, it was a total failure. They thought they could get "rich" people from New York to pay $400+ to ride one way in a fancy club car with sandwhiches and drinks. Most people would rather drive (or have their chaffuer take them).

The only real shame here was this service was the last one holding the ALP44 electrics on the roster, after almost all got replaced by the new ALP46. Now, there is no reason to keep the ALPs that are in service now.

New business

I heard the local radio complaining about how NJ transit is still "keeping locomotives meant for the cancelled ARC rail tunnel that cost several million dollars". This is referring to NJ transit's new Dual Mode Diesel electrics. Though the radio report did mention that "NJ transit claims they will improve service on other lines", they sounded like they were portraying the new locomotives as a waste.

To clarify, the ALP45DM can run on any part of the NJ electrified lines (Former Pennsy, and former Lackawanna electrification which is different), and then transition to diesel power. In the past, if one wanted to reach New York Penn station from a diesel-powered line, you would have to change to an electric train at some point. I think diesel trains only go as far as Newark or maybe secaucus. Considering there are several lines on NJ transit where this can be useful, It kind of bugs me that people don't recognize the obvious advantages here.
Modeling New Jersey Under the Wire 1978-1979.  
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#11
GEC, you expect people to use there heads and actually look into something like the capabilities of the loco's and the needs of the railroad Eek , You do realise that most people heard that radio station and will angrily repeat how the railroad bla,bla,bla, waisted bla,bla,bla tax $ bla,bla,bla and never really understand what kind of potential is there.
 My other car is a locomotive, ARHS restoration crew  
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#12
Green_Elite_Cab Wrote:"keeping locomotives meant for the cancelled ARC rail tunnel that cost several million dollars".

Today's Bergen Record reported that the cost for the 35 locomotives was $408 million.

Mark
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#13
So they think that as soon as the tunnel was cancelled, the locos should have been dumped in the Hudson to make a new reef?
David
Moderato ma non troppo
Perth & Exeter Railway Company
Esquesing & Chinguacousy Radial Railway
In model railroading, there are between six and two hundred ways of performing a given task.
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#14
I'm not happy that PA has become the united states number 2 gambling center Nope
Tom

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#15
For those of you outside of NJ, here is the locomotive in question. It features a pantograph for All-Electric operation into Penn Station, or between the Northeast Corridor and Atlantic city.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=2933584">http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2933584</a><!-- m -->
Modeling New Jersey Under the Wire 1978-1979.  
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