Aircraft Parts Manufacturer and "SkyBox" freight cars.

[TTRAK_andrew]

G'day All,
On a totally non-rail related search for info on SpaceX (private space launch company - where most of our PAYPAL fees goes, if I understand correctly) I came across their main `office' on Google maps at 1 Rocket Rd, Hawthorne, CA 90250, USA. A few hundred metres to their left (West)(as on the map), was a rail siding featuring some SKYBOX freight cars.
Google Map site:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=1+Rocket+Road,+Hawthorne,+CA,+United+States&hl=en&ll=33.92084,-118.33562&spn=0.002024,0.00284&sll=33.920666,-118.326897&sspn=0.011449,0.022724&gl=au&hnear=1+Rocket+Rd,+Hawthorne,+California+90250,+United+States&t=h&z=19">http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=1+Rock ... s&t=h&z=19</a><!-- m -->
This industrial plant is operated by Triumph-Vought and makes parts for BOEING. Apparently Vought has several plants that use SkyBox freight cars, see:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://avstop.com/news_march_2010/boeings_747_8_and_vought_aircraft_marshall_street_facility.htm">http://avstop.com/news_march_2010/boein ... cility.htm</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.voughtaircraft.com/newsFactGallery/factsheets/docs/MarshallFactSheet.pdf">http://www.voughtaircraft.com/newsFactG ... tSheet.pdf</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.triumphgroup.com/companies/triumph-aerostructures-vought-aircraft-division/about-us/commercial-programs">http://www.triumphgroup.com/companies/t ... l-programs</a><!-- m -->
The California site suggests that it would be `model-able' if the focus was on the freight car loading area and the main buildings were all low relief/flats, like with an auto plant or paper mil. It's location in the midst of an industrial area also lends it to being able to be placed on a smaller home layout or even an Industrial Switching Layout.
The SkyBox cars a 60ft(?) flats with special large containers permanently fixed on them and are made in both HO and N Scale by Huberts:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hubertsmodelrr.com/N-Scale.html">http://www.hubertsmodelrr.com/N-Scale.html</a><!-- m -->
but I don't know how available they are now.
If anyone knows of plans/outline drawings of the containers they should be fairly easy to scratch build and then fit on an existing flat car.
I think that this would be a good way to get some larger and unique rollingstock on to even a smaller layout without stretching credibility.[By the way, you can never get `really unique', or `very unique' objects etc. They can only be `unique' or `close to unique'- English language corruption rant finished!!]
If any other folks have information about aircraft parts being moved on the rail I would be very interested in hearing.
Regards,
Andrew G.

[jwb]

I worked briefly at one of the plants you link to. Aircraft parts have been hauled by rail at least since World War II, when the Santa Fe especially raised the roofs on auto cars in order to accommodate B-24 production, and possibly other planes. Sunshine Models did urethane kits for these, and I think the Westerfield raised-roof Santa Fe box may have been used in this service, too.

I have one of the Huberts cars:     I think this is based on a prototype that had drawings and/or photos in Mainline Modeler. Huberts had a number of paint schemes for this basic car, but I believe only this one was close to a prototype. Concept models has some very basic urethane kits for other types of cars at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.con-sys.com/aircraft_parts.htm">http://www.con-sys.com/aircraft_parts.htm</a><!-- m -->

In many cases, the cars were built to accommodate the specific type of aircraft or rocket whose parts were being shipped, so they're of various unique designs. I think the most common cars were used to ship 747 body parts from various subcontractors to Boeing near Seattle, and that would include the Hubert's car. The GN/BN had cars of the general type shown, some or all of which had well recesses in the floor in addition to the cowls. The SP had several different types, one of which was covered by an Ambroid wood kit <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.trainweb.org/ambroidkits/trains/woodkits/Ambroid_H-Cars.htm">http://www.trainweb.org/ambroidkits/tra ... H-Cars.htm</a><!-- m --> (scroll down). A later version seems to have used the same fishbelly flat car base (originally built for the SP to carry farm equipment) but with a longer cowl with end doors. I've scratchuilt some models of these and will post some drawings I made and photos of a model later. These were used at least for 747 body parts between Hawthorne, CA and Seattle, as well as FA/18 tail assemblies between Hawthorne and McDonnell Douglas in St Louis. Some of these cars had COTS stencils indicating service between Chula Vista, CA and St Louis as well. As far as I can see, these later SP cars were as close as things got to a "standard" aircraft flat. Some of the Concept Models type cars also turned up in Hawthorne.

You're certainly right that such cars would be a welcome change to a shoebox ISL. The SP and later UP handled them a lot in the LA basin, and they were also common on the I-5 corridor -- often right behind the loco so the crew could keep an eye on them, since they were excess height.

Reinhard?

[jwb]

You can find a shot of this car type at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=602514">http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=602514</a><!-- m -->
   

[jwb]

Here is another one that based on its numbering makes me think it carries Boeing 767 parts. TBCX is the Boeing reporting mark. You can find photos at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=225601">http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPict ... ?id=225601</a><!-- m -->    

[TTRAK_andrew]

G'day jwb,
Thanks for your input, and especially the drawings. When the next 4 or 5 scheduled scratch building projects are done I might tackle an
N scale versions of these cars as the actual covers are smooth metal and appear to be not a lot of detail.
Regards,
Andrew G.

[jwb]

Here's a different style of BN car. As I say, there are major and minor differences among small series of all these. I haven't been able to find photos of this car on the web, and others in the general number neighborhood are more like the BN car above.    

[Russ Bellinis]

These skybox cars are all boxes built to install on the 89 foot flat cars. Basically the same type of cars that receive auto racks or are used in cofc (single stack) or tofc service. I worked on a refrigeration unit on one a few years ago that was used to transport rocket fuel to Vandenberg Air Force base where most of the experimental rocket launches from Southern Cal originate. I think an 89 foot flat from Intermountain or BLMA would be a perfect base to start with for a kit bash.

[jwb]

I'm not sure where yout get your info on 89 foot flats, Russ. As Andrew and I have pointed out, the cars are often unique, no two alike in many cases. I've posted drawings of three such cars here made from my own measurements and confirmed by dimensions in the ORER. None of these is mounted on an 89 foot flat. I'm not saying you didn't work on a particluar car that was mounted on an 89 foot flat, but that would be one more case of variation. I've been interested in these cars for a long time, I've measured a fair number, and while I've seen a great many in the 60 foot range or shorter, I've never seen one in the flesh on an 89 foot flat. The Boeing cars, a number of separate series, are all purpose-built. The BN and SP cars are mounted (welded) on flats in the 60-foot range originally built for farm equipment, lumber, or similar service. Again, you can confirm this in the ORER, since individual flats were rebuilt from series where their fellows remained in the original service. I'm not aware of any such cars rebuilt from piggyback or cofc service. If you're aware of them, why not post your own photos/drawings, measurements, references to the ORER, etc? That way we might all be able to share the info!

[MountainMan]

G'day All,
On a totally non-rail related search for info on SpaceX (private space launch company - where most of our PAYPAL fees goes, if I understand correctly) I came across their main `office' on Google maps at 1 Rocket Rd, Hawthorne, CA 90250, USA. A few hundred metres to their left (West)(as on the map), was a rail siding featuring some SKYBOX freight cars.
Google Map site:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=1+Rocket+Road,+Hawthorne,+CA,+United+States&hl=en&ll=33.92084,-118.33562&spn=0.002024,0.00284&sll=33.920666,-118.326897&sspn=0.011449,0.022724&gl=au&hnear=1+Rocket+Rd,+Hawthorne,+California+90250,+United+States&t=h&z=19">http://maps.google.com.au/maps?q=1+Rock ... s&t=h&z=19</a><!-- m -->
This industrial plant is operated by Triumph-Vought and makes parts for BOEING. Apparently Vought has several plants that use SkyBox freight cars, see:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://avstop.com/news_march_2010/boeings_747_8_and_vought_aircraft_marshall_street_facility.htm">http://avstop.com/news_march_2010/boein ... cility.htm</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.voughtaircraft.com/newsFactGallery/factsheets/docs/MarshallFactSheet.pdf">http://www.voughtaircraft.com/newsFactG ... tSheet.pdf</a><!-- m -->
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.triumphgroup.com/companies/triumph-aerostructures-vought-aircraft-division/about-us/commercial-programs">http://www.triumphgroup.com/companies/t ... l-programs</a><!-- m -->
The California site suggests that it would be `model-able' if the focus was on the freight car loading area and the main buildings were all low relief/flats, like with an auto plant or paper mil. It's location in the midst of an industrial area also lends it to being able to be placed on a smaller home layout or even an Industrial Switching Layout.
The SkyBox cars a 60ft(?) flats with special large containers permanently fixed on them and are made in both HO and N Scale by Huberts:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.hubertsmodelrr.com/N-Scale.html">http://www.hubertsmodelrr.com/N-Scale.html</a><!-- m -->
but I don't know how available they are now.
If anyone knows of plans/outline drawings of the containers they should be fairly easy to scratch build and then fit on an existing flat car.
I think that this would be a good way to get some larger and unique rollingstock on to even a smaller layout without stretching credibility.[By the way, you can never get `really unique', or `very unique' objects etc. They can only be `unique' or `close to unique'- English language corruption rant finished!!]
If any other folks have information about aircraft parts being moved on the rail I would be very interested in hearing.
Regards,
Andrew G.

Your last link is "unavaiable and a couple of the others are dicey at best.

[jwb]

Here's an SP car that I scratchbuilt out of styrene from my own measurements and drawing:     These have always been graffiti magnets, since they have a large uninterrupted side surface. I built this in the late 1980s, before tag-style graffiti became available on decal sets. I need to update this with some of those.

[jwb]

Here is an Ambroid SP Sky Box, the kit dating from about 1970. Since the decals were 40-plus years old, they were in very bad shape. Luckily I was able to get the large lettering out of them, but most of the small lettering disintegrated when I tried to put it on, and the HYDRA CUSHION on the flat came out very badly. I'll probably have to paint it out. I can piece together a lot of the smaller lettering from Micro Scale data and SP sets.     I can't imagine that these cars lasted very long in this paint scheme, since they went first over Tehachapi and then over the Natron Cutoff on their way to Seattle, so they would have gotten very dirty. This is also not the same type of car as the SP model I scratchbuilt in the post just above -- note that the Sky Box has lift-off top sections, while the later one has just end doors. The later one carries 747 parts, but I think the Sky Box predates the 747 and dates from the early 1960s. But I don't know what plane parts it carried.

[ATSFDash9]

Hello all,

this is my first post, since I'm new to this forum. Hm not really new because i've spend some time lurking around and I'm staggered about the massive amount of extreme fine modelling here. And some of this even came from Germany ...
And now back for this thread:
For some time now I'm collecting informations and photos about the so called "Boeing-Train" wherever and whenever I can find something on the web. So there are different versions of these cars, and even some longer then the one you messured, like these:

a) http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetail...toID=55321
b) and e.g. one with 89' http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetail...toID=15758

And if anyone here has access there will be one usefull source: http://www.fobnr.org/expediter/old/2000/2000_4.htm Sorry, I have no access :cry:

And the cars designed for transport the fuselages will maybe even more impressive http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetail...otoID=3360 , with a corresponding tail car like this one http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetail...toID=58267

@jwb: Your drawings are a very usefull source for anyone who wants to build one of these cars. Thanks for that.

Regards,
Frank

[jwb]

Glad to see more interest in this stuff! It's inspired me at least to pick up some .040 styrene and start work on one of the TBCX 767 cars. And again, Concept Models has basic urethane kits for some cars, including what look like parts to convert a commercial flat to a Boeing 737 carrier. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.con-sys.com/aircraft_parts.htm">http://www.con-sys.com/aircraft_parts.htm</a><!-- m -->

[jwb]

Here is a car I saw at West Colton this afternoon, VAIX 2005. All I know right now is VAIX is the reporting mark for Vought Aircraft Industries.    

[ATSFDash9]

Hello jwb,

it seems to be the same car as this one: http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetail...toID=50324 and http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetail...toID=50325.
So this seems to be another sold and renumbered ATSF-car as in the Linke above: http://www.railcarphotos.com/PhotoDetail...toID=15758

Which kind of cr do you want to build?

Regards,
Frank