Posts: 1,902
Threads: 159
Joined: Dec 2008
Like Val (Spitfire) i plan on doing a steel mill somewhere in the future. Val has a space of 2'x12' for her steel mill from Walthers. She even pre-ordered all the buildings, your one lucky girl Val 
My plans would strictly be a Steel Mill Layout, much like a switching layout, only kind-off compressed all together but just enough to tell the story of how steel is made.
My plans are as follows (this is the layout i have been thinking about for the past 3 nights as i lay in bed trying to fall asleep lol)
Large mine with open mine pit on one side of the room with lots of conveyors and a coal flood loader or 2 to help load up coal trains. Trains would travel down the line a bit to the ore dock, which would consist of 3-4 ore dock kits kitbashed into one double sided ore dock. I would need kits to make it double sided, 2 kits to make it double sided and 1-2 more kits to extend the double sided ore dock. Barges would be loaded by the ore dock and then travel down the layout to the steel mill where they would be unloaded by the Hulett Ore Unloader and Empire Gas Works Bridge Cranes. To separate the ore dock scene scene where the barges would be unloaded, there would be a scenic divider to help with the "further down the line" process of how steel is made.
The coal and iron ore would then be loaded into more coal hoppers, some would go to the Coke Oven & Quencher, some to the Tr-State Power Plant, and some directly to the Blast Furnace. Cars arriving at the Power Plant would be used to power the whole Steel Mill Complex. High Tension Towers would be used to feed the power to the various Steel Mill Buildings (Blast Furnaces/Blower Engine House, Rolling Mill, Coke Ovens, Coke Retorts, Gas Works.....). Coal arriving at the Coke Oven and Quencher would be turned into Coke and then hauled in Coke Cars to the Blast Furnace. The Gas that is produced from the Coke Process would be modeled with the Empire Gas Works Coke Retort, Gas Plant, and Gas Storage Tanks, which would all be located near and around the Coke Oven & Quencher. The Gas would be stored and shipped out via Tank Cars
Once the Coke arrived at the Blast Furnace/Blowe Engine House, it would go through its process, mixing several other materials with the coke, turning into molten steel and being transported via Hot Metal Bottle Cars to the Rolling Mill where it would be poured, rolled, pounded..... into steel products and shipped out on Flatcars, Coil Cars, Boxcars..... The Slag from the Blast Furnace would be taken to an area just outside the Blast Furnace to a large pit where the slag would be dumped to cool.
I do not have any space for a Steel Mill of this size at the time, but i am keeping my fingers crossed for space in the future, of coarse alongside my Modesto & Empire Traction Modules Im assuming it would take a space of about 10x20' to have a good model of around the room layout for the Steel Mill using the Structures from Walthers that they are coming out with and re-releasing. Even though i know that i will not be able to model this industry for quite some time, i still will want and need to buy all the Walthers re-runs and new kits for the future lol
This is what i would like to get:
I have not added up the totals for this yet, and quite frankly im scared to lol, but im assuming its somewhere around $2000-$2500, a VERY expensive series of Steel Mill buildings lol
If i get bored enough (which i know i will lol), i will start a trackplan for this layout in the size room of 20x10 feet to see how that works. But then again, there are no guarantees that i will get a room of that size and this may be something WAY down the line in my life lol, but at least i will have the buildings and plan to start with when that time comes
What do you guys think? With a show of hands how many think i am CRAZY and out of my mind?
Josh Mader
Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
Posts: 1,897
Threads: 40
Joined: Dec 2008
Josh,
I think we all want to model everything we see that interests us. You can't do it. You won't have enough room, money or time. Maybe I should have used and instead of or. Basically what you won't have enough of is all of the above. I think your MET is probably designed on a bigger scale than you will be able to finish in a reasonable time period, but it is a reasonable goal, and if you get a big enough house some day to have a large train room, it is doable. Doing a steel mill will require a second train room. It won't fit on the MET since I think the only steel mill in California was the Kaiser Steel mill, now closed, that used to be in Fontana.
Posts: 1,215
Threads: 89
Joined: Dec 2008
Well we all know your crazy but the real problem is acquiring all the buildings, I would doubt walthers is going to keep all these sets on the market long enough for savings or down the road plans
Tom
Model Conrail
PM me to get a hold of me.
Posts: 1,902
Threads: 159
Joined: Dec 2008
Russ Bellinis Wrote:Josh,
I think we all want to model everything we see that interests us. You can't do it. You won't have enough room, money or time. Maybe I should have used and instead of or. Basically what you won't have enough of is all of the above. I think your MET is probably designed on a bigger scale than you will be able to finish in a reasonable time period, but it is a reasonable goal, and if you get a big enough house some day to have a large train room, it is doable. Doing a steel mill will require a second train room. It won't fit on the MET since I think the only steel mill in California was the Kaiser Steel mill, now closed, that used to be in Fontana.
Russ although you are right, i still would like to at least get all the buildings and kits i mentioned above so at least i will have them in the future if i ever get a chance to set something up like i mentioned in my first post in the way of a layout that shows the process of coal and iron ore to steel....
Requiring 2 trains rooms for this would be a must, as the M&ET plans and all those modules might barely fit in one room, and i think i would want to avoid storing those in a garage or an outdoor storage shed. The Garage or a Large Storage building in a future backyard, granted i get a big enough house with a big enough backyard lol, might make a good home for a steel mill layout like this. Who parks there cars in a garage anyways now a days?  my family, including my grandparents, have not parked a car in our garages for ever, to much junk fills the garage at my house, and too many large woodworking and metal shop tools fill the garage at my grandparents house lol
The M&ET is definitely designed on a very large scale that will continue work for years and years to come. I dont expect to be done with that till way later in my life, this also means building good strong modules that will last 50+ years (only 19 years old lol)
Josh Mader
Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
Posts: 1,902
Threads: 159
Joined: Dec 2008
tomustang Wrote:Well we all know your crazy but the real problem is acquiring all the buildings, I would doubt walthers is going to keep all these sets on the market long enough for savings or down the road plans
hehehe thanks Tom, its not the first time ive heard im crazy in the modeling side of me
Yes that is the problem, how long Walthers plans to keep the buildings around. But at least this will flood the market with the new kits and the re-releases, and they will stick around for a bit after Walthers discontinues them again like last time.
Although, i think they may keep them around and in production for a little longer, look at there N scale Steel Mill Kits, they have been out for some time and are still in stock and Walthers has not discontinued them **yet** lol
Im keeping my fingers crossed that Walthers keeps the new kits and re-releases around for at least a year or 2, that should be sufficient amount of time for me to acquire them i think, well once i get a freaking job anyways  
Josh Mader
Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
Posts: 5,859
Threads: 175
Joined: Dec 2008
Trucklover Wrote:What do you guys think? With a show of hands how many think i am CRAZY and out of my mind?
Josh, of course you're crazy: you're a model railroader!
In your steel plant scenario, you've left out one important detail: The blast furnace produces iron, not steel. There are many processes for making steel from iron, but the most common is in BOFs (Basic Oxygen Furnaces), or in open hearth furnaces. While these will both use up more space than your blast furnace, the good news (at least as far as expense goes) is that both of these facilties are more or less enclosed in large structures, and, if you model the proper side of the building, a few doors for trucks and trains will take care of the major details.
There's no reason why you can't dream of someday building such a layout, and, as long as you can dream it, there's always the possibility that you will succeed. If you cease to dream it, you have no chance of success.
Wayne
Posts: 1,902
Threads: 159
Joined: Dec 2008
doctorwayne Wrote:Josh, of course you're crazy: you're a model railroader!
hehehe  of coarse, were all crazy some of us just being a little more crazy then others 
doctorwayne Wrote:In your steel plant scenario, you've left out one important detail: The blast furnace produces iron, not steel. There are many processes for making steel from iron, but the most common is in BOFs (Basic Oxygen Furnaces), or in open hearth furnaces. While these will both use up more space than your blast furnace, the good news (at least as far as expense goes) is that both of these facilties are more or less enclosed in large structures, and, if you model the proper side of the building, a few doors for trucks and trains will take care of the major details.
ahhhh well see i knew i was forgetting something.
So if i understand this correctly, the molten iron goes to the BOF or Open Hearth Furnace and then goes to the Rolling Mill?
doctorwayne Wrote:There's no reason why you can't dream of someday building such a layout, and, as long as you can dream it, there's always the possibility that you will succeed. If you cease to dream it, you have no chance of success.
That is very true, and its been the case with my previous layouts i have done. I never would have thought i could do any of the stuff i have done in the past few years in this hobby..... You just have to know what you want and work towards it, and sometimes that can be quite difficult to know what you want lol
Josh Mader
Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
Posts: 5,859
Threads: 175
Joined: Dec 2008
Trucklover Wrote:So if i understand this correctly, the molten iron goes to the BOF or Open Hearth Furnace and then goes to the Rolling Mill?
Well, there are a few other steps in between. If the steel is teemed (poured) as ingots, the moulds have to be removed from the ingots (usually) before they go to the rolling mills. There, they're re-heated before rolling. Mould handling is a whole separate issue.
If the steel is for use in a continuous caster, it goes into ladles (usually) then is teemed into the caster "mould", which is basically a large, adjustable-size, vibrating hole in the floor. If a caster is in use, the first mill in the rolling process ( a slabbing mill) is eliminated, and the resulting cast slabs go to a plate or strip mill and cast blooms go to a bloom and billet mill.
Most modern-day facilities use multiple BOFs in conjunction with a continuous caster, usually housed in the same building. This building can be as high or higher than the blast furnace, as the process is largely a vertical operation.
Wayne
Posts: 1,902
Threads: 159
Joined: Dec 2008
doctorwayne Wrote:Trucklover Wrote:So if i understand this correctly, the molten iron goes to the BOF or Open Hearth Furnace and then goes to the Rolling Mill?
Well, there are a few other steps in between. If the steel is teemed (poured) as ingots, the moulds have to be removed from the ingots (usually) before they go to the rolling mills. There, they're re-heated before rolling. Mould handling is a whole separate issue.
If the steel is for use in a continuous caster, it goes into ladles (usually) then is teemed into the caster "mould", which is basically a large, adjustable-size, vibrating hole in the floor. If a caster is in use, the first mill in the rolling process ( a slabbing mill) is eliminated, and the resulting cast slabs go to a plate or strip mill and cast blooms go to a bloom and billet mill.
Most modern-day facilities use multiple BOFs in conjunction with a continuous caster, usually housed in the same building. This building can be as high or higher than the blast furnace, as the process is largely a vertical operation.
Wayne
I think im getting this Wayne lol
For lack of space and already having so many buildings to model on the steel layout, i think i should only model the large BOF next to the Blast Furnace. From there it would go off to the rolling mill. lol
Patrick's HUGE Steel Mill and his MASSIVE BOF come to my mind now. I wonder where he is? I dont think he made it over the new Big Blue, think ill try and find him lol
In the meantime, Wayne would that work, just modeling one large BOF? I dont think i would have the room for much more, let alone all the other buildings i want to have on this steel mill layout lol. Maybe i could model the other huge buildings such as the Open Hearth Furnace and the Electric Furnace as backround buildings as a backdrop, they would be quite tall and act like a great backdrop i think. Hmmmmm maybe the BOF would make a great backdrop as well, this would save me a lot of space lol. **Ideas flowing through my head**
Josh Mader
Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
Posts: 1,902
Threads: 159
Joined: Dec 2008
After starting a plan for this layout in the future in Empire Express, the thought went through my head, do a double decker layout. I thought this, have the bottom level the coal mine with open pit mine and the coal flood loaders. Trains get loaded up and travel all the way across the layout to the other side where they are emptied on the massive ore dock and into barges. Barges will then go to the upper level and be unloaded at the steel mill. Separating the levels will give me more modeling room and less hassle of connecting levels with a helix or long incline between levels. This will also allow for greater separation in between levels, say about 2 ' or so, if i had to connect the levels, that would be quite difficult lol. More space between levels is always a plus. Basically both levels would be switching levels but would also have a double track mainline on them that would allow for continuous running with the use of 2 lift outs or drop downs where the door would be located....
Working on the plan, will post some progress later
Josh Mader
Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
Posts: 5,859
Threads: 175
Joined: Dec 2008
Trucklover Wrote:In the meantime, Wayne would that work, just modeling one large BOF? I dont think i would have the room for much more, let alone all the other buildings i want to have on this steel mill layout lol. Maybe i could model the other huge buildings such as the Open Hearth Furnace and the Electric Furnace as backround buildings as a backdrop, they would be quite tall and act like a great backdrop i think. Hmmmmm maybe the BOF would make a great backdrop as well, this would save me a lot of space lol. **Ideas flowing through my head**
Josh, whatever works for you is what will work for the scene. I don't have the room, even if I used my entire layout room, to do a to-scale rendition of a steel plant. Almost 40 years ago, I was scratchbuilding a model of a very large blast furnace. Had I been able to afford to finish it, it would have occupied almost half of the Chippawa Creek aisle on my layout. You have to pick the aspects that are most interesting to you, then use some of the other interesting elements to create the backdrop and surrounding scene. Tracks disappearing behind or into various buildings are your connections to the unmodelled sections of the plant. The layout of the plant doesn't have to be totally logical, as it would in real life, although many real plants are laid out in what appears to be a haphazard and inefficient manner simply because they grew that way over the years.
Wayne
Posts: 9,762
Threads: 234
Joined: Dec 2008
Josh, and anyone else that is interested that has Google Earth.
If you type Midland, Pa into Google Earth it will put you over what used to be Crucible Steel Co.
It is now owned by Allegheny Ludlum Steel and they make a lot of specialty steels here.
This area is in Hi-resolution so you can zoom in. It is a classic example of a small mill, but it is still enormous. It would take a lot of shrinking to do a good model, but you can get some Ideas.
Charlie
Posts: 159
Threads: 12
Joined: Dec 2008
For an even cooler view:
Clickie!
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=qs5htr88vq9j&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=23816365&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1">http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&F ... &encType=1</a><!-- m -->
Posts: 1,902
Threads: 159
Joined: Dec 2008
doctorwayne Wrote:Josh, whatever works for you is what will work for the scene. I don't have the room, even if I used my entire layout room, to do a to-scale rendition of a steel plant. Almost 40 years ago, I was scratchbuilding a model of a very large blast furnace. Had I been able to afford to finish it, it would have occupied almost half of the Chippawa Creek aisle on my layout. You have to pick the aspects that are most interesting to you, then use some of the other interesting elements to create the backdrop and surrounding scene. Tracks disappearing behind or into various buildings are your connections to the unmodelled sections of the plant. The layout of the plant doesn't have to be totally logical, as it would in real life, although many real plants are laid out in what appears to be a haphazard and inefficient manner simply because they grew that way over the years.
Wayne
Wayne you have been a big help to me on this subject. You have made me think and get some ideas flowing through my head on how to lay things out. Right now, im thinking i will modeling 2 Blast Furnaces Kitbashed together with the Blower Engine House connected to the furnaces with the piping kits. Nxet to this and offest to the left will be a MASSIVE BOF, 56" long, 14" wide and 22" high, with some truck docks along the left wall and some rail docks along the long side. Piping and other details will help tie in the BOF with the Blast Furnaces. Offset from the BOF, would be a small backdrop building, by small i mean narrow and would serve as a very long backdrop representing an Open Hearth Furnace. The Rolling Mill which would be 64" long, 11" wide, and 10" tall would come in about half way down the Open Hearth Furnace backround building, which would still be visible towering over the rolling mill. Beyond the Rolling Mill would be a serious of small buildings where the steel would be cast into various parts and shipped out via boxcars and flatcars, containers and trucks. Basically the small buildings would take the huge coils, slabs.... of steel from the rolling mill and make them smaller and into parts for machines or anything else that might come on order from Manufactures around the world....
Beyond those would be the Tri-State Power Authority, a huge sub-station and a ton of High Tension Towers providing power to the whole Steel Mill. This is what i am thinking so far, i just have to get it into a plan lol
Josh Mader
Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
Posts: 1,902
Threads: 159
Joined: Dec 2008
Charlie and Shaun, thanks!! I checked out the area on both Google Earth and Live Maps and i got some ideas, thanks again 
Josh Mader
Maders Trains
Offering everyday low prices for the Model Railroad World
|
