Model Train Production News

[Brakie]

Pete's right, we've become too interested as a hobby in RTR. Previous generations did everything from scratch. I plead guilty to this.

Mike,Sadly this isn't the hobby I grew up with where everything had to be built and detailed.

However,its not my dad's hobby either where the majority of the needed locomotives was scratchbuilt from tin or brass stock or a kit.Buildings was crude at best and usually made from cardboard or wood.

Then brass locomotives entered the picture and scratchbuilding locomotives slowly died without much fanfare since it was a royal pain to scratchbuild a steam locomotive.

No,those days will never return no more then the BB kits-Athearn has said repeatedly that BB sales fell 80%-no wonder Horizon bought them out and then invested heavily to bring the sales back up.

I embrace the RTR market and think the hobby is far better then it was 12 years ago.

I no longer buy BB car kits since they're a hassle to assemble the kit correctly where the coupler will be at the correct height..

[Brakie]

May be the expected production predominance of Bachmann will bring us back to the good old blue box days (I am too new in the US model railroad hobby to have they era experienced).
If Bachmann floods the market with engines like the Geeps we may take them as a base to build what ever skill, time money etc. permits. That may be helpful to shift the hobby from collectors/consumers/buyers back to builders. All the smaller US companies supplying the add on details would become more important and stronger than today.
I am extreme pleased and satisfied with my perfect running and finished expensive Atlas models but I am proud of my Corman Geeps... just my two cents

Reinhard,Actually those BB car kits was a hassle to assemble correctly where the coupler would be at the correct height without the help of KD washers.

I also agree Bachmann will be slowly take the lead in sales.

[sailormatlac]

Maybe it's just me and my twisted vision of the hobby, but I'm recently starting to think that RTR don't kill creativity that much. Many people still continue to tweak their RTR, detail them, weather them, bash them... Widely available commercial structures are rebuilt in different shapes for different pupose. Layouts built from "RTR" products existed in the 50's and every era that followed. To what extent, that's the real question.

Matt

[jwb]

This reminds me of a debate that took place in the early 1960s over "shake the box" kits (which basically became Athearn bluebox). The late Len Madsen, a pioneering HOn3 modeler who'd written some fantastic articles for MR on scratchbuilding things like a D&RGW drop bottom gon and a Chama coaling tower, wrote a letter to the editor basically saying that if Athearn would come out with a shake-the-box HOn3 D&RGW boxcar, he'd buy a jillion of them. If you look at the prototype rail scene, the fact of life is quantity and duplication. The occasional steam turbine is fun, but the everyday scene is SD40-2s or GP9s or SD70ACes. Each train needs several, and lots of trains go by. Same applies to unit train hoppers or double stacks. When I was a lot younger and one of my interests (then as now) was the D&RGW narrow gauge, I began to realize that I'd need to scratchbuild a LOT of stock cars (and I'd better get cracking). The Tomalco kit didn't help, especially since the kit instructions were inaccurate, and led to an underframe that didn't fit the sides. If you want to scratchbuild individual items for contests or the display case, that's fine, but many modelers never had the time or inclination just to build up the skils you needed to put together, say, an Ambroid wood kit. I agree with the guys who say the hobby is better now; you can get an RTR HOn3 D&RGW stock car for less than an unpainted brass one cost 35 years ago, and you don't have to cuss at the Tomalco instructions!

[MasonJar]

From the point of view of a modular railroader, whose focus is on operations...

I would not run many of the RTR offerings at the club set-ups. At $40+ each, I am not prepared to have others handle them, transport them multiple times per year, and do some "quick and dirty" (although still decent ) weathering on them. For the same reasons, I am not prepared to invest a lot of time to scratch-build all the required cars either.

So the "shake the box" or BB or whatever kits fit the bill. I can bring the requisite cars (the call is different every set-up, but between the members, we generally need 100 - 150 cars) and at ~$10 each, they are fine. The detail is decent from 3+ feet, they run well, are easy to repair, and stand up to repeated handling and transport.

I always look at the Accurail or Athearn kits over RTR when I visit the LTS. Either that, or the consignment shelves...


Andrew

[Brakie]

I always look at the Accurail or Athearn kits over RTR when I visit the LTS. Either that, or the consignment shelves...
Andrew

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I'm at the point now where I am thinking about selling all my BB and MDC cars since they no longer fit my modeling needs.The newer RTR cars are just plain superior to those older cars.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Well, this depresses me a little.

I HAVE NOT been a fan of Bachmann, though I really want to. After all, Bachmann has provided me with several electric models, and detail and (for the most part) functionally, they are fantastic.

when you consider that the only 12 E33s were built, and there were only ten by the end, you would think it an odd choice for a model. Bachmann's Acela set is also nice. the HHP8s are pretty good (I have issues with their PC board). They even re-ran the E60s.

The problem is, that I don't think anyone does any research over there. The paint schemes on Bachmann models are frequently wrong, and not just a little wrong. The models sometimes don't even really represent any existing engine.

The painful thing is that often, logos are placed in the wrong spot, or weird road numbers are used where it is genuinely unnecessary. I don't see how it would add to the cost to put the Conrail Logos on the right place on my E33s.

Bachmann made an E60 in Phase III Amtrak paint, and #974. So far as we can tell, #974 wasn't ever in Phase III with its old road number, most were renumbered into the 600 series when they were repainted (and rebuilt). Bachmann could have just put "603" or something on it, and it would have been just fine.

Don't even get me started on the Amfleets. Their paint schemes literally do not make sense, and show that somebody was just slapping on random red white and blue stripes and then called it a day. They charge you $40 for these cars, and they don't even decorate them properly. This is unnacceptable.

If bachmann is bringing in the profits, i better see them step up their game.

[teejay]

An interesting disussion , to be sure . I'm probably showing my age , but RTR has never appealed to me ....bought a RTR Kadee box car for $25 a few years back and thought I was crazy . I don't scratch build rolling stock , just structures , but my stash of kits bought 10+ years ago is finally paying off for most of what I need these days . If I do need a particular flat/gon/caboose etc. , I look for kits at the shows .....usually $20 buys 4 ( atleast ) ...and kit bash 'em . I guess my steel modeller background makes me OK with building the structures I need ....besides , I enjoy it . I notice that a majoriy of young people I encounter are completely against building things . There seems to be a fear factor of making a mistake . Too bad , they're missing out on the fun part of the hobby .

Terry

[Green_Elite_Cab]

. I notice that a majoriy of young people I encounter are completely against building things . There seems to be a fear factor of making a mistake . Too bad , they're missing out on the fun part of the hobby .

Terry

I don't know if I would say that is entirely the case. Mistakes are a fear, but its also because there is not necessarily a lot of stuff out there to work with.

There is a inherent lack of accessibility to young people in the hobby. They can't just go to a hobby shop to view things at will, nor can they go to trainshows. they may not have the money to afford these kits.

often times, the only good base models are fairly expensive and for a young person, they can't just shrug off that sort of loss, its a real setback.

I could spend $169+ on a new Walthers Metroliner EMU to convert into an Amtrak push-pull cab, or I could just buy two of the new amfleets and save $20. One entails a lot of risk, and the other is pretty much guaranteed satisfaction.

Sure, you can get the old Bachmann Metroliners for cheap (sometimes) for this hypothetical project, but then they are not always easy to find or obtain either.

There just isn't a lot of cheap fodder for kitbashing experiments these days, and the certainly isn't a lot of opportunity to learn how to do these things from other people, apart from some of these railroad forums, which is a whole different story.

[sailormatlac]

"Don't put you eggs in the same basket" they say... One can say produce everything here, another everything over there... I think it's a good old question of balance... Anyway, they put themselves in this crazy situation. I'm pretty sure Accurail is laughing its heart content at the actual situation!

How well I remember the days - when there wasn't all that much "availability" of model railroad products - or as I call it, the days of Model railroading, the days of scratch building just about everything. My now limited income, makes RTR, and even most kits, an "out-of-the-question" option. These are the days when, the things I had to learn as a young hobbyist, are now some of the most valuable resources that I have.

Well said, it's only when facing a crisis that an individual will develop its creativity and skills. Much more rewarding than buying everything impulsively. Anyway, I don't know of a modelrailroader that don't have shelves full of unbuild and unused stuff ready to get into the sun again.

Matt who forgot a long time ago about his delayed pre-orders!

[Brakie]

I'm pretty sure Accurail is laughing its heart content at the actual situation!
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They have nothing to laugh about..

They're still making the same tired old kits they produce for years and a quick check of their web site shows a lot of those kits are not in stock! :o

[jwb]

I wouldn't go that far about Accurail -- they have, in fact, updated their line with one or two new kits a year, such as the steel-sided reefers, the combo door boxcars, and the 41-foot gons; before that the AAR twin and triple offset hoppers. They clearly mean to occupy the bluebox niche, with updated detail standards and technology. Both the reefer and gon kits now have brake rod assemblies, for instance, and it looks as though they could update earlier kits with the same assemblies (or you could order the part and do it yourself). In 2009 they cleared out a lot of their older stock at 40% discount, and it looks like they're trying to run a leaner operation to keep the doors open in this economy. If you want bluebox, you've got it, more up to date, and they seem to be trying to stay afloat. Where's the complaint?

[talltim]

Coming from the UK, its interesting to see the difference between Bachmann US and Bachmann UK. From what I can gather Bachmann has been around for a fair while in the US market and has been known for cheap and cheerful. In the UK they have been around for less time but now are pretty much the top end RTR manufacurer when it comes to range and quality and accuracy. Its almost like there has been no communication between the design teams (there probably hasn't).
I do get the impression that Bachmann US has stepped up a gear, and it will be interesting to see if they assault the market in the same way as the UK. If so, be prepared for some nice models and for rarer prototypes to get miniaturised.

[RobertInOntario]

Coming from the UK, its interesting to see the difference between Bachmann US and Bachmann UK. From what I can gather Bachmann has been around for a fair while in the US market and has been known for cheap and cheerful. In the UK they have been around for less time but now are pretty much the top end RTR manufacurer when it comes to range and quality and accuracy. Its almost like there has been no communication between the design teams (there probably hasn't).
I do get the impression that Bachmann US has stepped up a gear, and it will be interesting to see if they assault the market in the same way as the UK. If so, be prepared for some nice models and for rarer prototypes to get miniaturised.

I agree with this. Bachmann Europe seems to make some highly accurate & well-made locos. They're very high-end & well detailed and yet very affordable, especially when compared to similar North American models. For example, most Bachmann models of British steam locos cost anywhere from $80 to about $220 (depending on the loco model), yet I've seen models of Canadian steam locos (made by other manufacturers) going for $800 to $2,000. I still can't figure out why this is.

It's possible that these Canadian models (of Northerns & Hudsons, that cost in the thousands) are so high-end that I'm not comparing apples with apples.

[Brakie]

ink that "

I wouldn't go that far about Accurail -- they have, in fact, updated their line with one or two new kits a year, such as the steel-sided reefers, the combo door boxcars, and the 41-foot gons; before that the AAR twin and triple offset hoppers. They clearly mean to occupy the bluebox niche, with updated detail standards and technology. Both the reefer and gon kits now have brake rod assemblies, for instance, and it looks as though they could update earlier kits with the same assemblies (or you could order the part and do it yourself). In 2009 they cleared out a lot of their older stock at 40% discount, and it looks like they're trying to run a leaner operation to keep the doors open in this economy. If you want bluebox, you've got it, more up to date, and they seem to be trying to stay afloat. Where's the complaint?

Here's the rub..

If they wanted to keep their doors open they would stock their kits since their main competitors are now RTR and killed their line of kits..No stock means lost sales its just that simple after all you can't sell what you don't have.

Judging by the sales and steady release of high end models I think that "economy " excuse is getting old,worn and weak.

The real question should be why aren't those modelers lamenting the lost of the BB and MDC kits flocking to Accurail?

No stock perhaps?





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