Speaking of Early Conrail

[jwb]

This page <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/gp7/gp7repaint.html">http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/gp7/gp7repaint.html</a><!-- m --> , which is by no means exhaustive, has ex EL 1404 in patches as of 5/22/82 on a dead line, no torpedo tube GP7s listed there with any dates. The low 1400s were ex Erie with steam generators but no torpedo tubes. Fallen Flags has 1404 in patches at Paterson, NJ, which suggests it may have been in passenger service with NJDOT at the time. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cr/cr5924akg.jpg">http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cr/cr5924akg.jpg</a><!-- m --> The low 1400s had steam generators but no torpedo tubes and were ex Erie. 5926 with torpedo tubes in all blue in 1980 is at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cr/cr5926aga.jpg">http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cr/cr5926aga.jpg</a><!-- m --> The ones with torpedo tubes were ex DL&W. The EL GP7s are a can of worms. Ex DL&W GP7s had normal MU, but the Erie GP7s had pneumatic MU to be compatible with the Erie's Baldwins, so I have a feeling CR got rid of these pretty quickly.

Even without photo backup, I'd be inclined to say since you're a good way toward patching these locos anyhow, I'd go ahead and patch them. There are at least no photos that say you can't!

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I have got two more possible candidates (they served at the freelance line too).


They belonged to the EL 1405 - 1409 GP7 series and became CR 5925 - 5929.
I did find lots of former EL GP7 still in EL paint scheme and CR patches but none of this very specific series with steam heater and used for passenger service.
The 1407/5927 became rebuild into GP8 with chopped nose and plain CR blue in 1980. A photo of 1406/5906 made in 1980 shows the engine in plain blue too. I could not find photos of the other engines of that series in CR service and none at all with patches.

I would like to know if two of them made it into 198x still in EL paint scheme with CR patches?

My guess is you won't have much luck with these units.

1407/5927 was actually outshopped from Paducah Shops December 13, 1976, and was part of the very first pilot group rebuilt into GP8s. It would become briefly #5726 before being finally renumbered #5406

However, none of the other former DL&W Passenger GP7s appear to be on the GP8 roster.

While I would hold out to see what photos might be lurking on the net, I might consider removing the "torpedo tubes" and doing a different Former EL unit. There were plenty of strange spark arrestors and other roof top details on other EL GP7s to replace them.

Consider this-

There were 354 GP7s at the start of conrail. Many were retired right off the bat in 1976, and their number steadily eroded. Between 1976 and 1979, 48 were converted to GP8s. Another many GP7s (along with GP9s and F7s) were traded in for 100 GP15-1s. In 1981, a significant number of GP7s were retired (according to the Conrail Motive Power Review Volume 1). Another significant block were gone by 1984, and 33 were retired in 1985. By 1986, no GP7s remained on conrail. Its entirely possible some GP7s never even saw much service with conrail.

To support JWB's can of worms assertion:

The GP7s were the second most numerous locomotive on Conrail, followed by GP9 (463) at the start of conrail. Despite their numbers, they suffered from being non-standardized. a "Geep" may be set up to run long hood forward, or short hood forward. At least three different brake systems were used, and then further modified by the component railroads. They had all different sorts of fuel tanks, may or may not have had dynamic brakes, and even different engine components such as air compressors. In fact, the wiring in many locomotives even within the same component railroad tended to be different (one DL&W GP7 might not be interchangeable with your torpedo tube ones). Without Cab Signalling, many of these GP7s and GP9s were not even permitted to pull trains on large portions of conrail, without a cab-signaled unit in the lead, severely limiting their utility.

While i'm sure many of Conrail's roster escaped the photographer's lense (or at least, are not easily accessible on the internet), I suspect the only reason we saw 5927 rebuilt and 5926 in blue was because they were in good working order at a time when 10% of Conrails fleet was broken down and unserviceable. Conrail was borrowing road locomotives from all over. It wouldn't be unusual to see a Canadian locomotive leading a Conrail freight during the first few years.

The DL&W passenger GP7s had all been mostly bumped from Passenger service by the U34CH locomotives. Most GP7s you see pulling passenger train in Jersey at that time were CNJ units. Penn Central had some ex NYC had some torpedo tube GP9s around chicago which became painted blue for a time, but probably were also retired after the Staggers act cancelled the commuter train that unit was required to pull (this also killed the remaining E8s on conrail).


If you like them, JWB certainly has a point, no photos means no evidence, and its your railroad. I haven't found any photos of an EL one yet (nor the SW1500 from earlier), but that doesn't mean they didn't make it even as far as 1985, despite the long odds.

If you'd rather model a "known" locomotive, you might want to consider a little more alteration to a different unit. In this case, it may be better to work backward from a photo.

[faraway]

Thanks a lot for the broad explanations about the Geep situation and the two torpedo engines.
I will just put them back in the cabinet and may use them some years later when I have a better EL specific use for them.

Athearn is going to have CR GP9 7163, 7271, 7324 and 7382 early next year. The ex. NYC 7324 could be found on a photo dated 1986. That might be a candidate for a longer living Conrail Geep but I understood your warnings about CR Geeps may be very different engines with a very special history.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Sorry for the long histories!

This Early Conrail stuff is what I like to model, and so its rare to get to discuss it! I figure most people aren't that interested in Conrail.


It appears I am in the same boat as faraway right now, as I just recieved in the last week, three nice models that aren't quite right for early conrail.

I've got a P2K PRR GP9 #7206 that while it kept its brunswick green and PRR style numbers, would require the "Last" PRR style font to be correct if patched. Even so, it became a GP10 at some in early 1979, just a few months short of my "cut off" date (April 1979). While i Suppose I could repaint the model, it would no longer be a "simple" patch, and it would become more of a project (and I don't need any of those).

If you look in this prototype photo, not only does it have the PRR numbers, but a little chunk of the "Pennsylvania" lettering is left over by some of the body vents.

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I've got an OLD Atlas/kato GP7 that i just picked up yesterday. It has been custom painted blue and numbered 5600. the paint job and decal work are great, but the model does not reflect the prototype 5600 (which did not have dynamic brakes), nor does the paint job seem to match any GP7 i've seen (Blue with Conrail logos on the side, but CR patches on the end). At the very least, the model will need to be renumbered and partially re-decaled. The other problem is that while the shell is pretty good, some of the details are molded on, and the pilots and truck side frames aren't making me to happy.




Finally, I recieved a Kato NW2 painted as Conrail 9241. Again, a unit that isn't quite right. 9241 was a former CNJ unit, still in its blue CNJ paint during 1979. Whats more, the organization of Conrail logos on the model, while in typical switcher locations, are not quite the "standard" for NW2s at that time. NW2s seem to have been heavily modified in some cases, and there were at least two body styles, and different cab-window placement on the left (conductor's) side.


Prototype Photo-

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Also, I recently acquired this Conrail X72 boxcar, which fits in nicely. The details aren't perfect, but it wouldn't take to much to make this car look a little better.

[faraway]

A nice collection have you got there. I had an eye on a CR geep too but could not find any on the market. Athearn "plans" to have one in early 2013. Let's see what China ships...

[Green_Elite_Cab]

A nice collection have you got there.

Thats just the "new" stuff that I need to rebuild. At least half my conrail roster all technically count as "early", depending on when they got repainted.

In particular, all my Conrail electric locomotives definitely fit under the "early" conrail definition. By then, Conrail was the last major electric freight hauler in North America. The GG1s were the first to go, being retired yearly until all were retired December 31, 1979. The E33s were places in Storage by mid 1980. The E44s lasted until the wires were deactivated on freight lines in 1981.

I could use some more GG1s, but otherwise, I have a pretty good collection of electrics, at least enough to give a realistic impression of Conrail electric power. The E44s I own are probably the rarest pieces of equipment I have. You just can't find them anywhere.

Here is my trio of E44As under wire. These not only look good, they run well too, which isn't always the case for brass.



E33 pair



And of course, GG1s. This particular GG1 is a model of the oldest production GG1 (first off the assembly line after the prototype 4800). Its re-patch of a Penn Central Broadway limited unit. It managed to keep its PRR stripe all the way to retirement.

I had an eye on a CR geep too but could not find any on the market. Athearn "plans" to have one in early 2013. Let's see what China ships...

In more recent years, Atlas re-did some home grown, very nice Conrail GP7s. Proto 2000 never seemed to make in in Conrail, but they made some "patchable" Geeps. All of those locomotives will have to be "projects". I really was looking to purchase a pair of GP7s, though these were not what I were looking for (they were given to me).

I was looking forward to modeling Conrail 5679, a CNJ geep with nearly intact green and gold paint (most did not seem to be in that good condition). 5679 also has the added benefit of hanging around the northern New Jersey electrified lines in most photos, so i'm guessing its the perfect CNJ diesel to have on my roster.

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This fuzzy picture not only has 5679, but another CNJ geep that ended up with NJ DOT. These were a littler different in that they have housings on their long hood that contain some equipment related to passenger trains (the steam generator appears to be in the nose). This last photo is in november 1979, so 5679 seemed to last a while in CNJ paint. The NJ DOT GP7P lasted that way at least until 1983, when Conrail stopped running Passenger trains and NJ transit as a commuter agency took over.

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[faraway]

Patched Reading SW1500 ready to be on duty monday.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

A semi relevant article on modeling Conrail 40' boxcars. If you model early Conrail, the very last 40' boxcars were still in service, allowing you a little variety in your rolling stock (rather than fleets of nearly identical brown 50 boxcars).

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[jwb]

Don't neglect 40-foot cars -- one of the problems of epoche VI modeling in the US is that the cars are getting to be 60-foot minimum length. 40 footers give you half again as much play value! Athearn did an upgraded version of the Roundhouse modernized boxcar in its RTR line, with a lot of Conrail predecessor road names:
   
   

[jwb]

I sort of got onto a late D&H - early Guilford jag lately, which I periodically catch, since I misspent part of my youth in Guilford territory.
   
D&H was impacted as much by Conrail as Conrail was, since a number of locos and freight cars were transferred to D&H on C-Day. They got some ex-LV GP38-2s.
   
D&H 24238 is an Accurail model of an ex-EL car that went to D&H, with A-Line steps and some paint improvements. Not perfect, but I like it.

[tomustang]

I try to stay away from early conrail, there's way too much versatility.

[faraway]

Some Microscale Conrail decals arrived and I had the opportunity to "patch" Athern RTR SW1500 Quality Conrail back to plain Conrail. The Polly Scale Conrail blue matches the Athern Conrail blue in real better than on the photo.

Not a very early Conrail but at least not in the 1990's and therefor a much better match for my layout and the other Conrail rolling stock.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Not a very early Conrail but at least not in the 1990's and therefor a much better match for my layout and the other Conrail rolling stock.

I suppose it depends on what you consider "early" conrail. From the photos, it seems that SW1500s were slow to get repainted, but there were a few that were repainted as early as may 1978, and I haven't checked every source I have yet.

I feel that "early conrail" is a tricky time to pin down. You could certainly make that case that in the first two years, there were still many locomotives that not only had not been patched, but were still in their old road numbers, creating issues tracking the locomotives.

By 1978 and 1979, Most locomotives were patched and renumbered where necessary, and a lot more blue was present.

On the other hand, Conrail was under the management of Ed Jordan up until 1981, when Stanely Crane took over and made big changes to the railroad. In this regard, Up to 1981 can be considered early conrail.

On the third hand, Ed Jordan had been pressing for railroad deregulation through the Staggers act, which was passed fall of 1980. These changes in regulations allowed Crane to even make the changes to make conrail successful. It also finally allowed Conrail to stop running passenger trains (most commuter trains in the region were operated and maintained by conrail, even if the railroad didn't directly own all the equipment). State Agencies such as NJ transit and SEPTA took over these trains starting January 1, 1983.

[jwb]

Conrail history, for the modeler and railfan, is complex and fascinating. The most recent (and apparently the last) Emery Gulash Conrail DVD from Green Frog shows a Reading C424 in original paint and number on Horseshoe, giving a little perspective to how these locos were used in the very short time they were on Conrail. On the other hand, Conrail discontinued use of the western lines of both EL and Lehigh Valley immediately on C-day, and it downgraded all EL freight lines except the Southern Tier (which was their only high-wide clearance option to New York for some years). It moved freight off the ex-PRR electrified lines more slowly.

[jwb]

Here's some more work on those Walthers X72 box cars:
   
   
   
All have Details West cushion underframes substituted for the stock ones. The PC car is an earlier run. The latest run has trucks and couplers that I can re-use; the earlier ones didn't.

Here's a Conrail ballast car conversion from a covered hopper: