Speaking of Early Conrail

[faraway]

After Conrail returned the MP15 DC to EMD, they were then sold to GATX. GATX kept them in Conrail blue but painted over the CR lettering and logos and added the GATX logo on the hood and a small GATX under the original CR number on the cab sides.

Bruce

The Atlas H0 GATX MP15DC model mimics that patch and paint job perfect. I did the reverse and used the blue patches of the GATX engine to locate the place to put the CR decals.

ps. Some became LLPX instead of GATX and got a black top http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/modelth...LPX&mid=33

[bdw9535]

ps. Some became LLPX instead of GATX and got a black top]

Reinhard,

From what I could find all ten were brought by GATX, #'s 9625 26-27and 29 after being GATX were then sold to LLPX. 9629 then went to the Austin Todd and Ladd RR(ATL). 9630 went from GATX to the Old Augusta RR(OAR). Couldn't locate any additional info on 9621-22-23-24 and 28,

Bruce

[jwb]

Here's an old Athearn bluebox GP38-2 that's on its way to becoming one of the ex-PC Conrail locos.
   
I seem to have decided to use up a lot of odds and ends in repowering, so it's a mixture of A-Line and NWSL bits and pieces, which has given me, off and on, years of headaches to make work together. However, I'm now done with the repower, and now I get to use up scraps of Conrail decal sets in lettering it. It does match speed well with Atlas and Atlas Trainman locos, so DCC conversion down the road should be the least of my problems.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Well, i'm looking at a few new additions.

I have an ex-Reading Company GP30 that I want to patch for Conrail, and I'm looking at another Conrail GG1 (BLI, # 4853)that has become available. Three GG1s, Three E44s and two E33s would a pretty good roster as far as Conrail electrics go. At the very least, I'll have two reliable Conrail GG1s. Apparently, the MTH unit, #4841, is an accurate representation of the real 4841, which didn't last long on Conrail either. It came back missing parts, and I'd argue it still isn't perfect. However, it did seem to run (haven't given it a "long" assignment yet).

I also have a 1981 "Atlantic Region" employee timetable, though its been updated to 1984, so I'm not sure it counts as "early" conrail anymore. Fortunately, a roughly 1977 version is available online at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.multimodalways.org">http://www.multimodalways.org</a><!-- m --> . The real goal will be to find one specific for the time period I want to model.

So anyways, here is a quick pic of some of the "new" (now several months old) conrail stuff. I realize I have no photo of GG1 #4841, so I'll have to go take one (it doesn't take a lot of imagination to see it in your mind though).

This Reading GP30 will eventually be a Conrail unit of some kind. I'm trying to pick one that I can find hanging around New Jersey when I model. I don't have all the proper Conrail decals right now anyway, so I have time to think about it. I also ended up with another Evans boxcar, this time the "blue" one. That's the first half of my 1970s Broadway Limited in the back. The photo is on my North Elizabeth Station NEC module.

[jwb]

Don't forget the train control box on the front walkway of the GP30. In a discussion someplace, I learned that they were unpainted/gray bare metal when applied to Reading locos.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Don't forget the train control box on the front walkway of the GP30. In a discussion someplace, I learned that they were unpainted/gray bare metal when applied to Reading locos.

This is true, I think I need to buy more of these. I had bought a lot of these in the past, but every round of "detailing", they all seem to dry up (just like my Conrail decals!). I wish they made a set of just Conrail Locomotive patches.

I think I have enough decal sheets to do close to 25 "full" conrail locomotives, but I have zero patches left. I think there is only enough patches to do one locomotive with each "style" of patch.

The PC style- (this is Andy Rubbo's Lane Tower module, something I hope I can match sometime soon)



The "CR" style patch. Gonna have to weather this thing sometime this summer. In fact, I'm pretty sure the SD45 ALSO needs a cab signal box!
The list keeps growing!

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Wooo, Well, add #4853 to my roster of Conrail Electrics! That more or less fills in my Conrail Electric roster, since I doubt I'll be able to snag any more E44s, and I don't think 4 conrail GG1s are entirely necessary.

That makes me feel pretty good then, since now I can focus more on the passenger aspect of my modeling. I still have the decals and paint to do a CNJ GP7 in a conrail patch. On HO yardsale, a guy was selling p2k undec GP7 shells, and I have that PRR P2k GP9 that I don't know what to do with. I might be able to get away with using one of these shells to make that CNJ unit.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Well, I now have additional early conrail units. My Reading GP30 is now Renumbered #2168 and patched.



I also renumbered almost all my GG1s. as it turned out, #4841 (my MTH unit) and #4853 (my newer BLI unit) were both retired at the same time, and were right next to each other on the dead-line for months. #4844, the other BLI number was retired two months prior to these examples, putting them out of action for the year 1979.

While I could just overlook those details, I decided to renumber these into units that appear to have survived to the November 1979 stop date of Conrail's GG1s. This also has the added benefit of avoiding "duplicate" numbers at my Heavy Electric Modular club, as the BLI Conrail models were popular despite having little in the way of paint.

I was drawn to 4859, not only because this one survives today in Harrisburg, but because when I visited 4859 at Harrisburg, my other Conrail GG1, #4840, was shown in a photograph with 4859, pulling a train not long before retirement. This was all I needed, and so 4853 became 4859.

At the same time, I needed a GG1 to match my MTH unit. I decided to renumber this one to 4867. This unit also appears to have survived into late 1979, and the only odd detail seems to be a raised area near the cabs that I think I can duplicate with styrene.

Both 4859 and 4867 also had their "as built" physical appearance, and used standard Penn Central/Conrail number font, which was important for an accurate model.

Many GG1s were rebuilt with altered air intakes (to avoid fine snow that tended to accumulate at the height of the original intakes), and others had "slots" cut into them to make it easier to climb onto the units. Since both the BLI and the MTH units are made of die-cast metal, and both are particularly expensive, these kitbashes seem out of the question for now.

The font is also important, since some Conrail GG1s had white numbers, but in the font of the older PRR Single stripe units. I did not know where I could get "white" PRR numbers in the correct size, shape and font for the GG1. Indeed, getting the "dulux" numbers for my single-striped NJ DOT GG1 #4883 was a pain the butt.


It was somewhat of a struggle to renumber 4853, the BLI unit. unlike the Penn Central logo that was on #4840, these numbers DID NOT want to come off with the same treatment (soak in walthers solvaset, erase with hi-polymer eraser). I did manage to erase them, but the paint is "shiny" in those locations. It will need some dullcoat.

On the other hand, the MTH lettering came off almost frighteningly quickly. the Walthers solvaset literally melted the lettering off the model. it could be wiped away with the pad of your finger! If only the MTH units weren't so problematic, i'd probably buy more just so that I could easily renumber and expand my fleet.

ultimately though, it was worth it, since I now have a trio of Conrail GG1s, and at least two of them are BLI and I know they will play nice with each other. I found programming instructions for the MTH unit, and hopefully I can trick it into playing nice with the other GG1s. If I can do that, I will have an impressive freighter lashup for next show season!

[jwb]

According to numerous photos and the Conrail Cyclopedia site, a number of Lehigh Valley locos went a year or more without being patched, including LV 214 and LV 7640. I had an early Atlas yellowbox 7640 that had been sitting in parts for over 25 years -- I finally got it together, added number board decals and weathering, and installed a DCC decoder. I also got a Walthers LV RS-2 and installed a DCC decoder:

   

I heard a presentation by a former LV chief dispatcher whose duties on the LV also included determining what locos went into consists and were assigned to trains. He said once Conrail happened, their motive power people got around to asking him why LV got so much more mileage out of its locos than Conrail was getting. He said the reason was that LV kept like locos with like in consists. Conrail, of course, didn't. I get the impression that many Alcos from Conrail constituents wound up in New Jersey and were MUed pretty much indiscriminately until the DeWitt rebuild program got going and the RS-3s went to Altoona for upgrade. I don't know if 214 was ever MUed with an RS-11, but on DCC, these work perfectly in a consist without any reprogramming.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I've also got a former Lehigh Valley unit under construction, Conrail 7499, Ex 305, a GP18

Right now, I'm having a hard time identifying precisely what red color to use on my model, since its not quite a bright red, but its not cornell red either.



The CRHS says this photo was taken July 3, 1979. Its nice to get a prototype photo exactly during the particular month and year I want to model. Once I get it painted, I have all the decals I need to do this scheme-



In the meantime, I need to also get the details together to improve this former Reading Company GP30, photographed beneath the former Reading Wires.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

According to numerous photos and the Conrail Cyclopedia site, a number of Lehigh Valley locos went a year or more without being patched, including LV 214 and LV 7640. I had an early Atlas yellowbox 7640 that had been sitting in parts for over 25 years -- I finally got it together, added number board decals and weathering, and installed a DCC decoder. I also got a Walthers LV RS-2 and installed a DCC decoder:


I heard a presentation by a former LV chief dispatcher whose duties on the LV also included determining what locos went into consists and were assigned to trains. He said once Conrail happened, their motive power people got around to asking him why LV got so much more mileage out of its locos than Conrail was getting. He said the reason was that LV kept like locos with like in consists. Conrail, of course, didn't. I get the impression that many Alcos from Conrail constituents wound up in New Jersey and were MUed pretty much indiscriminately until the DeWitt rebuild program got going and the RS-3s went to Altoona for upgrade. I don't know if 214 was ever MUed with an RS-11, but on DCC, these work perfectly in a consist without any reprogramming.

LV 214 got renumbered and patched into 5201. I had planned to do this unit, but my starting model was an RS3, and I couldn't find any LV RS3 patch jobs. There are some complications to using the proto RS2 as well, but its close enough.

If I ever revisited the project, i'd probably go for the Kato model, using an undec shell.

[faraway]

I consider to get one of my Walthers SW1 in early Conrail paint scheme.
That might be either the old black NYC paint scheme for road number 84xx or the old PRR paint scheme for road number 8501 and up (There are some exceptions in the road numbers).

I am unsure about the old PCC paint scheme used on SW1 switchers. They look black on all photos to me. But I read about DGLE "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel" as the PCC standard color. A very dark green close to black but only close.
Did PRR paint their SW1 in a very dark green or true black? I would use that as the base for an early CR SW1 switcher.

Looking at PRR SW1 at time when the paint was in better shape looks more like a none black but very dark paint. But what did Pen Central do to the NYC and PRR paint? Most NYC SW1 lost the white stripes until CR time. Did Pen Central paint NYC and possibly also PRR engines flat black?

An unmarked black ghost is in town :o

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I consider to get one of my Walthers SW1 in early Conrail paint scheme.
That might be either the old black NYC paint scheme for road number 84xx or the old PRR paint scheme for road number 8501 and up (There are some exceptions in the road numbers).

I am unsure about the old PCC paint scheme used on SW1 switchers. They look black on all photos to me. But I read about DGLE "Dark Green Locomotive Enamel" as the PCC standard color. A very dark green close to black but only close.
Did PRR paint their SW1 in a very dark green or true black? I would use that as the base for an early CR SW1 switcher.

Looking at PRR SW1 at time when the paint was in better shape looks more like a none black but very dark paint. But what did Pen Central do to the NYC and PRR paint? Most NYC SW1 lost the white stripes until CR time. Did Pen Central paint NYC and possibly also PRR engines flat black?

An unmarked black ghost is in town :o

Penn Central is black*

*for the most part

This has been a particularly frustrating topic for me, because I have heard so many things, but I have not been able to find an official source for the answer to this question. I also know people who worked on the Penn Central, as well as historical society connections, and their claims vary.

Here is what I suspect is the case-

All New Locomotives, and most ones freshly repainted are Straight black (not flat black, PC units did gleam at one point!). Due to internal politics, the Penn Central ordered all older locomotives to have their old logos removed and replace with Penn Central markings (in hopes of reducing NYC vs PRR infighting).

Furthermore many shops on the PC system, particularly the smaller ones, may not have had any Black paint (or the correct stencils and decals!). This means there could be PC locomotives in DGLE, because thats what they had laying around, or strange combinations of lettering styles on Black or DGLE.

It would be fair to say in this case, that "There is a prototype for everything".

That said, your best bet is to go Black.

SW1s Are Old

This is definitely a case where you want to use photos. A quick glance on Conrail Cyclopedia, CRHS Photo galleries, and RRpicture Archives shows a huge variety in paint schemes into the Conrail Era. In fact, SW1s had all sorts of schemes in the Penn Central Era as well, so there really isn't a cut and dry "generic" method of painting them.

By the Penn Central (and definitely the Conrail) Era, these locomotives were fairly old, and these locomotives probably only persisted because there were so many of them purchased by both the NYC and PRR, as well as the other Conrail Component roads. SW1s were also the only locomotives "light" enough to go anywhere.

Ultimately though, the SW1s were all gone by 1984.

The SW1 fleet was spread out to almost every corner of the Conrail system, but it doesn't look like they moved around to much. It would be wise to find a photo from the time and place you intend to model.


Links-

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/sw1/sw1.html">http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/sw1/sw1.html</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/sw1/sw1repaint.html">http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/emd/sw1/sw1repaint.html</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://thecrhs.org/content/emd-sw1">http://thecrhs.org/content/emd-sw1</a><!-- m -->

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/modelthumbs.aspx?mid=68&id=CR&Page=1">http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/modelt ... =CR&Page=1</a><!-- m -->

[faraway]

Thank you. That is the information I was looking for.
The ex NYC looked easier to use due to the known black paint but most of them kept yellow handrails (don't like it:-) and I found most photos of ex NYC service for CR in Chicago switching passenger cars in railway stations. That does not fit so well my freelance layout.
The ex PC are more often on photos serving industry. That is a better match. There was only the problem of a potentially wrong paint in none black. You answer helped a lot to pick a nice all black CR SW1 in the 8500 range.
The photos of the CR time show SW1 engines very close to end of life. But I thought that might be a nice match to serve my little freelance brick warehouses also close to end of their active life.

8557 and 8598 look good to me. They have also a standard stack like the Walthers model.


ps. I downloaded a bunch of matching SW1 photos to my iMac and use them as a background wallpaper stepping through the collection every 15 seconds. That is my preferred method to get very fast a good impression of a specific group of engines,

[Ralph]

Those look great!

Now there's a fun argument to have at a Penn Central modeling group..."Your loco is the wrong shade of black!"