A hole in the wall X4 - a liftout bridge (page 12)

[TrainNut]

Thanks guys! I'm hoping the creek scene will turn out nice. The one I had on the last layout was 5 bridges with a really deep canyon. This one will only have three bridges and I'm thinking the canyon won't be much deeper than about 5" max.

As far as the software is concerned, it's just AutoCAD. I've used it for structural engineering, civil engineering and architectural design for the last 11 years. It's kind of become second nature. Everything on my plan has been drawn from scratch one line at a time! I've finally come to realize that I get as much or more enjoyment just imagining and drawing the plans as I do building the layout.

[TrainNut]

Okay guys,
I've started on the framing for the lower level of my layout...
( <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=692">http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=692</a><!-- m --> )
...and as I progress, I'm trying to keep the upper level in mind and how I'm going to go about it. First off, go get a drink or something and drag over the comfy chair.

Got it? Good. Now that that's done, let me see if I can explain what's going on and what my problem is (just one of many I'm sure). Let's start with a concern and then move to a problem...

First up is a profile view you've probably seen before but here it is again for clarity sake...


What I want you to see here is that the lower level is at a height of 37" above floor (AF). I then have 16" between the two with the upper level at 57" AF.

Standing up, my eyeball level is 5'4" AF. When looking at the lower level from 18" away at a 45 degree angle, I will just be able to see the bottom of the backdrop.

   

HOWEVER, most of the time, I will be sitting in a roller chair and my eyeballs will be a perfect 54" AF.

This graphic shows how the upper level sits over the lower level (lower level is that kinda brown color)

   

Since the depth of the two levels varies and is not a constant 16", when standing up, there will be some areas I will not be able to see. I haven't quite decided if this is a big deal or not but it brings up the desire to raise the top level a bit but not much 'cause it's already high enough.

On the following graphic, the dark grey area around the partition is hidden from view when standing up at the specified distance and the dark hidden line is the overhang of the layout above...

   

Okay, now with that said, I have to figure out how to construct the HOn3 layout above. On the left side, I can screw it to the wall. Down the middle, I can make the partition on the lower level a little thicker to run 2x4's vertical to help support the upper level. I can also use eye hooks and cables to help support the corners from trusses in the ceiling. I'm just not sure how to construct the framework so that it will be as thin as possible. I have not decided if I will be using foam or homasote for the layout support. I will also be hanging flourescent lights from the bottom to light up the lower level. Sounds like time for another graphic...

   

In this graphic, you can see the outline of the HOn3 layout I am trying to frame. I also included some reference dimensions. Horizontally down the middle, lining up with the partition of the level below, are the three 2x4's mentioned above. I hope to use those to support the majority of the weight. They do not have to align that way as each one can be rotated 90 degrees on center... in fact, that would be better anyways. HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPP!!!!! Feedback? Ideas? Sketches? Questions?

[TrainNut]

So I was thinking of starting with 2 x 4's and doing this...

   

...and then on top of that, adding the 3/4 x 1 1/2's to support the layout and the fascia?

   

I also mentioned adding some cables from the ceiling to help support things but I'm starting to wonder if those would be necessary.

[ocalicreek]

Looks like the 2x4's and other smaller lumber may be the simplest way to go. I was going to suggest looking at Iain Rice's ideas for framing using 1/4" ply assembled into T and L girders, but built structurally into a grid framework, not the typical L girder waste of vertical space.

Galen

[TrainNut]

I wanted to try using Homasote on this layout instead of foam but it seems Homasote is not available in Arizona or California unless I want to order 96 sheets of it. Anybody ever use soundboard instead?

[nachoman]

I wanted to try using Homasote on this layout instead of foam but it seems Homasote is not available in Arizona or California unless I want to order 96 sheets of it. Anybody ever use soundboard instead?

Nope, but thought about it the other day. It doesn't look like it would hold up too well for cutting into smaller pieces. It doesn't seem to be bound tight enough, but may work okay if you are using a whole sheet and have it well-supported. I bet it will swell up with the glue/water when doing scenery.

[TrainNut]

My wife is out of town for a week and a half so I thought now would be the perfect time to disrupt the house and move furniture around a little bit in order to clear space for the benchwork. Here we go... the point of no return!

[eightyeightfan1]

While the cats away...The mice build benchwork for their layouts.
Nice start!

[Steamtrains]

Aahh...Nothing gets the juices flowing like a new layout going up..!!! Keep it going...and post lots of pictures..!!

[Russ Bellinis]

I may be too late with this post, but here goes anyway. If you are going to operate the lower level from an office chair on wheels, don't forget to recess those under layout cabinets far enough to allow adequate knee room. Think of the lower bench work as a monster desk. If the upper table is at or just below eye level, you will need some sort of portable platform to raise you up about 12 inches or so. If you don't elevate your self a bit, you won't be able to reach into the layout at all. Basically the layout has to be just below arm pit level for you to be able to reach in. If it is just a bit lower than that, say at the bottom of your rib cage, it will be easier to reach in without destroying the scenery at the front edge. If it is necessary to reach the back of the layout to re-rail after a derailment, you can use a small step ladder and some hand holds above the layout if that is possible. If you design a 12 - 15 inch high recessed "toe kick" under the cabinets, you can then store your foot boards for the platform vertically in the toe kick with some sort of simple latching device to keep the boards from falling over. Some small "sawhorses" built to the right height to lift you to the level that is most comfortable for operation and the same width as the foot boards could be stowed vertically in an open shelf under the layout.

[TrainNut]

Thanks Russ, I appreciate the quality feedback. I won't be using an office chair but either a stool or I've got this bicycle seat on a tripod thing. It's not incredibly comfortable but it gets the job done. The framework underneath the layout is recessed from the fascia but only by 4"... not nearly enough for what your talking about. The drop down steps are a neat idea and something I'll have to see if I can incorporate into my plans for the bottom. Right now, I've got a lot of shelves in mind and my wife has requested some space for a couple file cabinets to hide away.

Putting on the fascia was kind of fun as it gave the framing a finished look. Obviously I still have to take my jig saw and smooth out the top edges to incorporate the terrain of the scenery but that'll happen all in due time.



Oops, I forgot to take off that board on the very top for the picture. It serves no purpose and is only up there 'cause it was a good place to put it out of the way for the moment. IF, I go ahead with the HOn3 layout above, the majority of the weight will rest on those two 2x4's sticking up. They do continue all the way down to the floor so they can bear the weight.

I'm going to have to figure out what to do with the end of the partition wall to make it disappear... I dunno... maybe wrap a backdrop around it or something....



I also forgot about the light switches. I need to cut a hole there for them to poke through.



I've never wrapped fascia around corners like this before and so figuring out how to frame it was new to me...
An inside corner...



...and an outside corner...



...or vice versa depending on how you think about it. For the last picture, you can see how I wrapped the partition around the corner and got my first piece of foam in already. I still have to pull all three pieces of fascia back off as I have not inset the screw holes yet so the screw heads will sit flush. Where the big piece of blue foam sits is where the majority of my yard will be.



I guess it's time to take the compressor back out to the garage now.

[Jesso]

Looking great! I love the curves that you built into your facia, they look really nice! Very nice framing job!

[TrainNut]

Thank you Jesso. Nice to see you again... it seems like I've not seen you around for a while.

[Jesso]

Been super busy at work, they keep adding building that I have to support their printers, computers and servers. Taking a vacation this coming week so hopefully will come back refreshed and be more active. Going to camp out close to UP's mainline between Salt Lake and Ogden, so seeing trains may make me happier! Really like how your layout is looking, it is a very nice structure.

[BR60103]

I've just been looking at your framing for the upper level. How would it be to put a couple of beams (or L girders) straight out to the side of the uprights and run longitudinals across them? It might give a little better balance with wider support. I think a 1x4+1x3 L girder to get lots of screws in.