How much can we justify spending?

[doctorwayne]

My computer use is mostly train-related, and while the initial cost of the computer, spread over the years I've owned it, is relatively inconsequential, cable service for internet access is over $600.00 per year, by far my greatest model railroading expense.

Wayne

[jwb]

I was drawn back into this whole question by an issue that came up on another forum. Doesn't the question of "how much" apply beyond just cash money? The effort we put into things is another part of this -- there are times when I can spend a small amount of cash on scratchbuilding supplies, but spend many hours, plus the time I've spent building up experience, to get the same thing I could have purchased RTR. But it goes beyond that, too. I look at other forums (not too often on this one) where guys post things like "who makes HO signals?", when a little effort searching the Walthers site could bring up an answer probably better than half a dozen random responses to the post. Some people don't want to spend either effort or money.

The next question -- how much money can we justify -- actually has a simple answer: as much as we can afford. I get this from a remark in the Gazette a long time ago from a guy who'd switched from HOn3 to On3. People asked him if it was a lot more expensive. He said no, because no matter what scale you work in, you spend as much as you can afford. At first I thought this sounded extravagant, but after a little thought, I realized he meant that if you budgeted realistically, you had x to spend on the hobby, and you spent it. You could buy three Hon3 locos or one On3 loco, and there you had it.

So then I thought a little more, and I thought about John Allen and his impact on the hobby. The idea that someone would (at first) build a layout in a couple rooms of his house, and then move to a house where he excavated his basement to build a truly spectacular, world-famous layout had a very 1950s feel to it, a sense of American prosperity and unlimited aspiration. It's worth pointing out that Allen wasn't married, was probably not suited to marriage or a family, and in fact budgeted so carefully that he was a tightwad. (He apparently died with plenty of money in the bank.) Frankly, I like that side of the hobby. Why can't we aspire? It reminds me of a friend of my wife, whose daughter got to her late teens and suddenly realized "wait a moment -- I want to wear good clothes, eat in good restaurants, travel, have a nice house. I guess that means I need to get a good education and have a good job." Can we really disapprove of someone who thinks that way?

Then someone pointed me to Lance Mindheim's blog. Just in his posts this year, he tells people they should plan a layout with fewer than 15 switches, have no grades, ideally be on just a shelf, be something you can operate in 45 minutes. He points to a guy who's building a layout set in Cuba (of all places) as a good example of how to do things. (Except the Cuba layout isn't even a layout, it's a diorama but might be a layout one day. We get back to the question of effort here.)

Tell it to John Allen.

[Tyson Rayles]

"Then someone pointed me to Lance Mindheim's blog. Just in his posts this year, he tells people they should plan a layout with fewer than 15 switches, have no grades, ideally be on just a shelf, be something you can operate in 45 minutes."

Hmmmm, my layout has 10 switches, one grade, is a shelf type layout and an operating sessions lasts 45 minutes.

[jwb]

Do you think nobody else should build a bigger layout? Lance appears to think that way.

[Ralph]

John your appreciation of Lance's work is well documented. I see his style of railroading to be just one of many. He's enthusiastic about it...that's fine. There will always be those of us who fill our basements with lots of track, grades and whatnot. If the entire modeling world decided to create shelf-styled switching layouts only, I'd still be watching trains go around on my large folded dogbone.

In addition to questions about how much money and how much space we can justify regarding the hobby, the point about how much TIME is also a good one, not only as far as issues like RTR vs scratch building are concerned, but also in terms of how we balance participation in the hobby with the rest of our lives...and maybe how much energy we want to spend getting into arguments about something like model trains.

[Brakie]

but also in terms of how we balance participation in the hobby with the rest of our lives...and maybe how much energy we want to spend getting into arguments about something like model trains.
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I think that is a main key..One can "dream,plan and never complete the layout due to the lack of time,wherewithal or interest.

A ISL can be built and finished in a short time unlike a large layout that needs several years to build.

On the other side when finished I will have less then $500.00 in Slate Creek instead of $5,000 for a average size layout that would take me years to finish.

[Tyson Rayles]

Do you think nobody else should build a bigger layout? Lance appears to think that way.

Nope, I think you should build whatever you want. I built mine before I ever heard of Lance so he didn't influence my decision but he is on to something as a lot of people are going in that direction. But other ways/types/styles are equally valid as well.

[ngauger]

I may have thought of the definitive answer........

How much can we justify spending?

I'll let you know when I return from the train show today..

[Brakie]

Do you think nobody else should build a bigger layout? Lance appears to think that way.

Nope, I think you should build whatever you want. I built mine before I ever heard of Lance so he didn't influence my decision but he is on to something as a lot of people are going in that direction. But other ways/types/styles are equally valid as well.

You never seen Lance's N Scale Monon layout that graced the pages of MR and GMR just a few years ago? hock:

It was a very nice layout.

Mike,As I mention a ISL doesn't cost a small fortune to build like those Godzilla size basement layouts we see in MR..Lance just open the ISL closet door to the hobby..

Sadly ISLs for years as been looked down on as a inferior layout not worthy of a article in MR.Even when MR did the KR&D project switching layout back in the '71 most felt it was a waste of magazine space..

However..

IMHO in the coming years we will see more small to moderate size ISLs built due to the ever increasing hobby prices.

A ISL sure enough beats no layout or just dreaming about that some day Godzilla size layout that fills a basement or perhaps its own building.

[Charlie B]

I find it interesting that I know folks that look down their noses at my trains and train building and the money I spend, yet they think nothing of spendding more than $5 a day for cigarettes and another 5 or more for booze. It's my booze and smoke money that goes into the trains. I know how hard it is to quit these vises, I was a 50 year smoker and a 20 year drinker, but it can be done if you want to, just don't look down your nose at what others do for entertainment. It's their money, and they don't have to justify what they spend unless you are directly subsidizing them.
Charlie

[Lester Perry]

Many years ago some one asked my wife if my MRR. Wait they said, Doesn't The time and money he spends on my MRR bother you? Her reply was nope, I know where he is and what he is doing. He doesn't come home drunk and he doesn't chase women. How many women wish they could say that?

[eightyeightfan1]

A few years ago, someone I was showing my basement layout too said to me: "If you took out the toy trains..."(Thinking to myself "TOY!")..."You could put in a bar and a pool table." My answer:"Why would I do that? I don't drink, I don't play pool."
"Think of the money you could save."
"THink of the money I'm saving, by not having people down here drinking all my booze. Guess I could use the pool table for holding up another section of the layout."


He never came back.

[Charlie B]

a few years ago I was talking to a friend about quitting drinking. He too had been a drinker and had quit. We were talking about our "friends" deserting when we quit. He commented that if he had known it was that easy to get rid of them he would have quit drinking years before.
Charlie

[jwb]

John your appreciation of Lance's work is well documented.

Ralph, just to make it clear, I think Lance's work is remarkably good. It's his blog that's frequently bizarre. It's probably not much different from the really talented actor who doesn't have the sense to keep his mouth shut offstage.

[Brakie]

a few years ago I was talking to a friend about quitting drinking. He too had been a drinker and had quit. We were talking about our "friends" deserting when we quit. He commented that if he had known it was that easy to get rid of them he would have quit drinking years before.
Charlie

I knew a guy that lived for drinking beer and in the process lost everything including wife,kids,a good home and a good paying job..

They found him six years ago frozen to death..He had passed out on his lawn 23 feet from his trailer door.