B&O 26th Street Terminal

[Rscott417]

After my last layout and module before that had to be dismantled (both due to moving) in their very early stages, I decided to start planning my options for a new HO layout that will be able to move with me. I've always had an interest in New York harbor railroads but needed one that was pretty compact without the complex track work and I thought B&O's 26th st terminal is just what i'm looking for. It serves itself with one Alco S1 and a float bridge all in 1 city block. I found an article specifically on this terminal in HO scale <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://trainlife.com/magazines/pages/284/21128/september-1999-page-14">http://trainlife.com/magazines/pages/28 ... 99-page-14</a><!-- m -->. The track plan on page 14 is supposedly 5x8 which I thought would be plenty of space. The era of the layout will be the late 60's and this is how the terminal was arranged at that time.
My idea is to have the yard and 12th avenue in the 5x8 foot print with a lift out carfloat and bridge. I downloaded a free track plan cad but the plan I came up with doesn't seem like it fits at all, yet the plan in the TrainLife article seems to fit pretty well. This is my extremely rough plan with my little experience using these programs.
I reduced the 5 tracks in the lower right hand corner of the yard to 4 and the length of the track in the top right corner quite a bit and still doesn't seem to fit in a 5x8 space which I thought wasn't going to be a problem. The 2 tracks in the top left corner would be the lead to the float bridge but there needs to be a double crossover (I couldn't find one in the track library) as well as a run around or else this yard is unoperational, the engine would be trapped in sidings. I put some painters tape on the floor in 5x8 formation and mocked up some track and switches and it seems like there should be plenty of room for this terminal. I'm thinking about bringing the actual map to Kinkos or something like that and have them print it out on a 5x8 sheet of paper including everything to the right of the seawall, not sure what it would cost but it might be a better option for me then the track programs. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

[Kev1340]

Looks to be nice self contained and interesting plan.

Although the magazine article shows the plan fitting in a 5ft x 8ft space, they don't specify what brand of track, or geometry, that might be part of your problem. It looks like you'll need to use pretty small radius switches to make it all fit.

Like you, I have never got on with track planning software, I much prefer a pencil and paper! Another trick I use, is paper templates of switches to layout in situe, much easier to visualise what will really fit!

Good luck, and let us know how you progress.

Cheers,

Kev

[lajry]

If your layout isn't completely walk around you'll have to put a popup where the two middle spurs are. OR you'll need VERY long arms!

[sailormatlac]

From my experience trying to fit Harlem Station in HO, you need extremely sharp turnouts, I mean things like PECO Setrack curved turnout. I also agree about the hard to reach geometry. That can be really trick as you have to work your arms over platforms and other scenic elements.

You have three options:

1) Find the most simple and smaller NYC terminal and try to reproduce it. It doesn't mean simplistic, but some are designed on land similar to the place you have.

2) Simplify the layout by taking account of operability. At some point, the safest bet would be to understand the operations and type of services at this kind of terminal and reengineer the plan in a more model-friendly shape.

3) Try doing it full scale in N scale, which could be a neat idea for a walkaround layout. Access wouldn't be a problem anymore.

Have you given thought about Harlem Station (Erie 149th Street Terminal). It can be done in HO in about 5' x 5' and everything is easily reachable, including the carfloat that wraps on the side of the layout because of it's ergonomic spiral-shaped trackage.

This website has a lot of info on NYC terminals, just browse, really interesting:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/errhs.html">http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/errhs.html</a><!-- m -->

Good luck, whatever you decide, that's gonna be a nice project!

Matt

[shortliner]

Re Matt's post - <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page88/">http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page88/</a><!-- m --> (bottom of page) and <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page96a/">http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page96a/</a><!-- m --> and <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page103a/#harlem2">http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page103a/#harlem2</a><!-- m --> and <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page103a/#harlem1">http://www.carendt.com/scrapbook/page103a/#harlem1</a><!-- m -->
Also <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://forum.mtimag.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=6120#6120">http://forum.mtimag.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=6120#6120</a><!-- m --> may help - but it did need Setrack turnouts and some of the Setrack curves

[BR60103]

Am I right in thinking that this is the full layout? That the cars come in by barge and are then unloaded at the various freighthouses?

[shortliner]

Not sure to whom the question was directed - but if you are asking about the 149th Street - yes, the double loco-lift represented the cross-river ferry barge - there was no rail connection to almost any of the small NY river side yards on the eastern side. If you have plenty of time - this link should take you to a French model RR site with a very extensive article about modelling NY Maritime ops <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://teamtrack.soforums.com/t451-NEW-YORK-RAIL-MARINE-OPERATIONS.htm">http://teamtrack.soforums.com/t451-NEW- ... ATIONS.htm</a><!-- m --> - I tried to post a link to the translated version without success - but would suggest that you use Google Translate if required

[Rscott417]

Thanks for the link shortliner, there's some really great models on that forum.
I do intend to build this as a walk around layout. I picked up this proto 2000 S1, it will get renumbered to 9155. A few other details need to be changed on it. I also wish the M and the O were closer together, looks more like BALTIM ORE AND OHIO.

[shortliner]

Glad you found it helpful and interesting - There is a layout on there called "Reseau Modulaire" in O gauge - it really couldn't be simpler - just 3 turnouts and US switching - but it fascinates me, probably because of the simplicity, but also because of the detail that the builder has managed to have worked into it.

[modelsof1900]

I think that will be a great modeling job with a nice switching layout. I hope to see many more pictures of your progress!

My specific interest would be the Bronx Terminal and the Bronx Terminal / East 149th street of Lehigh Valey RR with its gigantic warehouse.
But these both terminals are only ideas in my head without a chance for a realisation.

[shortliner]

Bernhard -put "Bronx Terminal+Tim Warris" into google and Youtube - you will think you have died and gone to heaven!

[Rscott417]

I'll have to search for that layout you're talking about.
I thought about the LV terminal, MRR did a track plan on it I think in N scale not to long ago but I don't remember which issue.

[modelsof1900]

Bernhard -put "Bronx Terminal+Tim Warris" into google and Youtube - you will think you have died and gone to heaven!

Shortliner, yes I did and I was dreaming from a model railroad heaven!
Because many should see the work of Tim I have linked his pages and the great terminal pages on my website.

[Rscott417]

I've been glued to that forum since you posted it shortliner. I found the "modular network" layout you were talking about, I agree for a small and simple layout it's packed with detail. I also have looked over the "city limits" layout 300 times and the General Electric building is awesome, has a little bush terminal feel with a cutout in the corner of the building. Needless to say this B&O layout isn't going to happen, I like the modern day railroading theme too much to go back into the 60s. Not only that but I have 3 Rubbermaid containers filled with modern rail cars and scenery that it would be a total waste to repurchase rolling stock and scenery for that time period. If anyone was looking forward to this, I'm sorry...blame shortliner Just kidding, a thank you might actually be in order. It's back to the drawing board

[shortliner]

Rscott417 - Just in case you havent found them - more time wasting coming up - there are a couple of videos of "City Limits" on Youtube - I won't be held responsible for the buckets of drool that will need to be mopped up!
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqNenV6954">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjqNenV6954</a><!-- m --> also look on the RHS for city limits@launstein 2010 - there are several under that title

and while you are at it look at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://teamtrack.soforums.com/t60-MERCHANT-ROW-SYSTEM.htm">http://teamtrack.soforums.com/t60-MERCH ... SYSTEM.htm</a><!-- m --> - there are videos of that on Youtube as well! Like this one <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xOu1a_xnbU">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xOu1a_xnbU</a><!-- m --> Google will find loads more!

also look at this for some more time wasting
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.trainmaster.ch/XCV-15-e.htm">http://www.trainmaster.ch/XCV-15-e.htm</a><!-- m -->