Branch line/ISL

[Brakie]

JWB:The problem I have with calling a layout an ISL is that (we're talking opinion here) it becomes a substitute for looking at the prototype and thinking out what you really want to do.
-----------------------------------------
You're way off base with that in fact you're not even in the ball park..The term ISL was coin by at a ISL design clinic in Ohio..I started using the term here and on other forums.

Your obvious dislike of ISLs and ISL discussions is duly noted and in that light..


Could we now please allow the discussion to continue as the OP intended?

[jwb]

Brakie, I'm curious. I would regard two of your statements in the post above as personal attacks: that I'm "way off base", and that I have an "obvious dislike" of ISLs. Personal attacks are usually frowned on in forums. You're a moderator here and on otrher forums, yet you yourself make personal attacks, and in the past, you've sent me abusive e-mails.

Who moderates the moderators?

[Mike Kieran]

NSHO, is your layout a branch line or a short line? If it was a branch line, there might not leave a GP-40 or an SD-40 there for 6 car trains, never mind having a yard. It's perfect for an industrial park/industrial spur short line ISL.

[Rscott417]

Mike unless it's a similar operation as Oak Point yard, they have plenty of sidings to switch and 6 axle power that brings cars in, hang out for a day then leave with all the outbound cars. That could work for this plan.

**nevermind I see what you're saying

[Mike Kieran]

My point wasn't the use of large power. I was just pointing out that a railroad wouldn't station one ore more road switchers for just 6 cars a day. It would be longer trains over more shifts. It's not cost effective.

A lot of CSAO yard jobs have engines stationed in order to handle multiple jobs. They may have one engine stationed at a yard to handle 1 morning and 1 night switcher or it handles enough cars in one shift to justify its being there.

The amount of revenue cars handled has to be greater than the operating costs (payroll for yard personnel, fuel, maintenance, etc.). That's one of the reasons why Class ones spin off branch lines. A branch line like this is more likely to be a short line because it doesn't make enough money. A Class one is more likely to also run a branch like this from a larger yard and not have a small yard or interchange.

[ezdays]

Brakie, I'm curious. I would regard two of your statements in the post above as personal attacks: that I'm "way off base", and that I have an "obvious dislike" of ISLs. Personal attacks are usually frowned on in forums. You're a moderator here and on otrher forums, yet you yourself make personal attacks, and in the past, you've sent me abusive e-mails.

Who moderates the moderators?

Mikey and I moderate the moderators when we think they need to be, and all tell you, it's been a long, long time since we've had to do that. Since we are talking about opinions here, it seems as if a few people have strong opinions on just what a ISL should be. Why is one opinion more right than the other? If you think that you are personally being attacked by Brakie or anyone else because they are voicing their opinion, then they can think they are being attacked as well, and we know that's not really true. Why do we need to argue so strongly when we know it's a fight that no one can win. If the definition of a ISL was in the constitution, then perhaps we could take this issue to the Supreme Court, but it's not. You won't even find it in the dictionary. This battle has been fought before and there are no winners, only hurt feelings. I suggest that each be satisfied with what you think, and that you all are true to your opinions, and not try to think that others have to agree with you.

Hey, it's a hobby folks, I've always had the opinion that it's my world that I'm creating and if it doesn't look prototypical, but I like it, that's all that counts. If I can't run sessions, big deal, I hate running sessions anyway. And if I don't like even running trains, so what? Regardless of how big or how small a layout is, as long as we are happy with our efforts, who cares how others do things????

[Rscott417]

My point wasn't the use of large power.

I didn't think it was but I realized what you were saying after I posted.

[Brakie]

A lot of CSAO yard jobs have engines stationed in order to handle multiple jobs. They may have one engine stationed at a yard to handle 1 morning and 1 night switcher or it handles enough cars in one shift to justify its being there.
-----------------------------------------------------
The same could be said if the industrial park is located in a smaller city..A (say) GP38-2 might handle 2 shifts of switching one for the industrial park job and other local industries and the 2nd shift job for industries in the next small town.
Fuel would be supplied by a fuel distributor--any track can be used as long as the fuel truck can reach the engine.

[wsor4490uk]

NSHO
I like it
I think when you get to operate it, only then will you be able to tell if you have too many industries or not.
You can then make up you're own back story to fit the layout, let your imagination run wild...

[Mike Kieran]

A lot of CSAO yard jobs have engines stationed in order to handle multiple jobs. They may have one engine stationed at a yard to handle 1 morning and 1 night switcher or it handles enough cars in one shift to justify its being there.
-----------------------------------------------------
The same could be said if the industrial park is located in a smaller city..A (say) GP38-2 might handle 2 shifts of switching one for the industrial park job and other local industries and the 2nd shift job for industries in the next small town.
Fuel would be supplied by a fuel distributor--any track can be used as long as the fuel truck can reach the engine.

Agreed. It's just that NSHO has only 6 cars at the interchange. I don't know if 6 cars would support a Class 1 Railroad crew. Even if the first crew sorts the cars, you still need a larger yard and more cars.

[Mike Kieran]

NSHO
I like it
I think when you get to operate it, only then will you be able to tell if you have too many industries or not.
You can then make up you're own back story to fit the layout, let your imagination run wild...

Amen. That's the bottom line.

[Brakie]

A lot of CSAO yard jobs have engines stationed in order to handle multiple jobs. They may have one engine stationed at a yard to handle 1 morning and 1 night switcher or it handles enough cars in one shift to justify its being there.
-----------------------------------------------------
The same could be said if the industrial park is located in a smaller city..A (say) GP38-2 might handle 2 shifts of switching one for the industrial park job and other local industries and the 2nd shift job for industries in the next small town.
Fuel would be supplied by a fuel distributor--any track can be used as long as the fuel truck can reach the engine.

Agreed. It's just that NSHO has only 6 cars at the interchange. I don't know if 6 cars would support a Class 1 Railroad crew. Even if the first crew sorts the cars, you still need a larger yard and more cars.

I agreed.
Let's look a tad deeper from the eyes of a railroad.

If there was other industries to switch in that town or the next town then a locomotive would be station there other then that the local would be called out of the nearest yard even if that yard is in a small city.

Now the cold facts.

Class one railroads would rather have a short line to handle those cars so,in short the industrial branch would probably be spun off to a port authority or a short line operator.
-------------------------------------------------
Some times I think I've studied way to much on modern railroads. :o :oops:

[Mike Kieran]

Larry, That's where I was going;

[NSHO]

I won't lie, I was a bit discouraged by some of the replies. However, having read this forum for a couple of years, it was expected from a few of the members I might not have clarified in my original post, this is a my hobby and I'm in it for fun. I thoroughly enjoy turning my zephyr knob up a few notches and watching a GP40-2, SD40-2 a combination of both tail to tail or heck even 3 in a consist (or I may get crazy and use a Dash 9) to switch out my generic industries. My railroad isn't prototypical nor was it designed to be. It's a more think outside the box and have fun with trains.

This is my railroad scenario. More than likely it is fiction. Looking back at my original post with original layout. We have a (not sure if it's a short line, branch line, main line) railroad line coming from a large city with a much larger yard. The trains departing this city/yard deliver a cut of cars to this town which has industries served by rail. Once the cars are delivered/left at this smaller yard, the train continues down the line to other towns/customers and eventually another yard. This same train will return via same route, passing by this same town and pick up empty and loaded cars.

Due to the prime location of this town, there is also an interchange with another railroad company that provides certain products needed by local industries. The cars delivered to the interchange are brought into the small yard and arranged for delivery. Same scenario, the interchange cars will get placed back on the interchange to be pick up by the neighboring railroad.

The switch list generator I use will tell me what cars I need to place on the interchange and railroad line. If a car for Processing B, Distribution A and Warehouse A are called for these will be place on the interchange track (just an example). The other spots will originate from the railroad line (just an example). I will be researching industries in more detail and pick several that could be served with the freight cars I have. To me, a boxcar is a boxcar. It just happens to be yellow and the name Railbox on it. I like the look of a Railbox car. I see Railbox cars in my area.

This town or "industrial" area has it's own engine "fleet". That's why I have an engine shed and storage. They work the interchange, small yard and deliver/pick up cars from the local customers. The experts can tell me if this exists and what it might be called.

I really do appreciate all the positive feedback. I am in the process of rereading all the replies and will take each one to the drawing board.

[FCIN]

Here's a Google view of a location in Evansville, IN that I'm quite familiar with and one that closely resembles your original layout plan: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Evansv...c99d?hl=en (I hate the "New" Google map style and always switch it to the old style map!!)

Located in the northeast quadrant of Evansville, this is part of the former C&EI (L&N) yard and line coming into Evansville that was bypassed some years ago. The yard is now used to sort and store cars for the various industries located along the line, access to the old Evansville Belt Line, and connections with the Indiana Southern Railroad (ISRR) and NS.

Traffic moving to and from this yard is handled by transfer runs from Howell yard and come in from the north where the line connects with the bypass. You'll note two lines connecting on the east side of the yard that cross US 41. The northern most line is the ISRR and the next one serves the Lynch Road industrial spur. If you follow the line on south, you'll find a wye where the line connects to the Evansville Belt line, a CSX Transflo terminal and a connection with the NS line from Huntingburg, IN. All sorts of varied industries can be found and of course depending on the era modeled, there would be many more rail served then there are today.

CSX has an office and MofW building at the south end of the yard and keeps as many as four locomotives at the yard; usually SW1500's and MP15AC's. Locomotives are serviced on sight, but if more work is required, they would be moved to Howell yard.

Point of this is just to show you how close your original layout plan resembles a prototype location and and might give you some ideas.