Mindheim Track Doubled

[stephanh]

Hello,

for a very long time now, I've been thinking about building a relatively modern N scale switching layout.
For the research, I bought several of Lance Mindheim´s books and, of course, visited his website more or less regularly.

I like his "East Rail" layout very much, but I always thought it would be nice and more flexible to have a runaround.

Here´s the original Mindheim-Plan:
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://lancemindheim.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/EastRailPlan1.jpg">http://lancemindheim.com/wp-content/upl ... lPlan1.jpg</a><!-- m -->
9'8''x9'6'' in H0 scale.

Attached, you find my idea of the (for now) same plan with a long siding.
It´s N scale and about 7'7''x6'7''.

If I would build it, I'd have even more space available, so the planning could be done more generous.

What do you guys think? Nice idea or a case for the trashcan?
Do you like it? What would you change?

Hope to hear from you.

[MountainMan]

That's look like it will generate a lot of switching tasks and keep you busy for a while!

[postman]

Looks good!. Lots of ops potential with the runaround track:
Do you plan to expand the layout?.

[shortliner]

Looks very good but for one thing - add another cross-over somewhere in the centre of the loop - that is going to be a PITA to do run-rounds when needed as it stands at present

[shortliner]

Deleted - double post!

[Brakie]

One thing I notice you have very little room to work thanks to that runaround. I wound make it a reverse in/pull out operation with lots of head room to work.. If you really want that runaround then I suggest you shorten it but,as I found out on Slate Creek a runaround is a pain and my operation ended up to much like a switching puzzle for my taste. My new Slate Creek will not have a runaround.

As a new local catch phrase goes think twice lay track once.

[stephanh]

Hi again,

one thing about runarounds on model railroad layouts that always cut the realism, is that they are too short in most cases.
I am not planning to shorten it, but I have forgotten to say that there will be some additional space to pull the train out of the layout planned so far.
I would have more space available, I guess the layout would be continued in the lower left and top right.

Someone told me that it might be better if the two industries on the right leg share one track.
I made the change to the plan. What do you think? I like it and it looks better now to me.

By the way, the layout will be BNSF-themed.

[Brakie]

Stephan,If I may..One advantage of N Scale is its size and the need to double industries on a siding isn't there like there is in HO.

Of course we are free to do as we please but,even in HO I avoid the old school thought of 2 industries on one siding since it gains nothing..My choice is additional car spots for (say) tank cars or covered hoppers. Another thought would be (say) Douglas International Plants #1 and #2-same company with two plants on the same track with several car spots.That should keep the local crew busy for awhile.

BTW..I'm very passionate about Industrial Switching Layouts (ISL for short) so,I have a tenancy to point out other thoughts that might improve operation..

[lajry]

Stephan
Your proposed siding is a WAY TOO LONG. Granted this layout is N scale, so your walking is not an issue. RR wise though doubt any RR would make one that long. as any trains working there would be only 6-10 cars. Besides think how far the on-the-ground trainmen would have to walk. Can see an old conductor making the RR shorten it. LOL So would reduce that one by 1/2. An alternate could be making spur on left side into a siding by adding a Xover on top end. And that would still leave an industry spur.

[Rscott417]

I like your plan and I'm a fan of the runaround operation. I like seeing a locomotive heading the train on the way in to the scene and leaving the scene. To say runarounds aren't prototypical or unrealistic you'd have to know every operation of every railroad in existence. You have opposite facing switches (even if it's only one) that supports the use of a runaround. Your industries and spurs are well spaced out and not squeezed into a small area I think you have a good starting point, but that's just my two cents.

[faraway]

Stephan, you omitted the staging yard at the very bottom. I think there should be a drill track at least. It might be a removable cassette with a track used as an entry and exit point of the jobs serving the industry.
An alternative would be to shorten the run around as suggested and move the switch of the run around 3 - 4 car length up

[Rscott417]

Stephan
Your proposed siding is a WAY TOO LONG. RR wise though doubt any RR would make one that long. as any trains working there would be only 6-10 cars. Besides think how far the on-the-ground trainmen would have to walk. Can see an old conductor making the RR shorten it.

I doubt conductors have a say in what the railroad builds let alone make them change something. Here's an example of a really long spur just for 1 tank car.

And a video of the spur (start at 1:45)
<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jMIFnI-fFO4">https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jMIFnI-fFO4</a><!-- m -->

[Brakie]

I like your plan and I'm a fan of the runaround operation. I like seeing a locomotive heading the train on the way in to the scene and leaving the scene. To say runarounds aren't prototypical or unrealistic you'd have to know every operation of every railroad in existence. You have opposite facing switches (even if it's only one) that supports the use of a runaround. Your industries and spurs are well spaced out and not squeezed into a small area I think you have a good starting point, but that's just my two cents.

From the ground.

The majority of the conductors I worked with would not make runaround moves unless there was no other options or the crew was going for overtime.

The reason is simple runaround moves requires a lot of time.

1. Stop. Set 2-3 handbrakes,close air valve handles,uncouple engine from train.
2. Pull engine ahead to switch Stop,unlock and open switch.
3. Engine proceeds to the next switch-closed and lock switch.The rear brakeman has the switch lined for your move.
4.Stop..Close and lock switch.
5.Reverse back to your train and couple..Connect air hoses, open air valve handles.
6.Head brakeman releases handbrakes,places red flag in coupler and walks to the engine at the far end of the runaround.

Time consumed around 20-30 minutes and that is with 2 brakeman which was allowed to swing on/off moving equipment.. Today the the train must be stopped before getting off or on.Locals today either use the conductor to do the ground work or a conductor and brakeman is used.

Thankfully the railroads wised up and decided a engine on both ends of the train was a better idea that has all but eliminated runaround moves.

BTW..We was not above using a flying switch for a facing point setout.One brakeman to throw the switch the other brakeman rode the car and operated the handbrake. I suppose today that would get the crew fired-including the poor engineer.

[stephanh]

Guys, thank you all for the detailed views of the train´s personal.
I really enjoyed the video of the tank car switching.

Maybe I should tell some more information about the layout´s range of use.
First of all, it would be a removable part for my home layout that will lead once along the wall in a closed circle.
So there will be plenty of space to pull the cars out of the siding and re-spot them.

The now discussed section will be 100% americaN compatible and is meant to take part on modular-meetings in the German FREMO.
Here´s the link: <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.fremo-net.eu/american.html?&L=6">http://www.fremo-net.eu/american.html?&L=6</a><!-- m -->

So what I´m trying to do here, is combinating switching-layout and modular mainline railroading.
The long runaround would help to have trains passing each other.

I know, I should´ve been mentioning that from the beginning, but I did not expect this discussion to go that far.

[Brakie]

So what I´m trying to do here, is combinating switching-layout and modular mainline railroading.
The long runaround would help to have trains passing each other.
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Cool! That even makes it better..You can clear up for a meet with another train or two then return to work. Excellent!