How do I talk to people who are "wrong"? Don't burn me yet

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Hey guys,

Before you burn me at the stake for rivet counting or anything, I want to point out that this isn't about criticizing people. Its a little more complicated.

I was at an open house, when a friend of one of my club members came up to us and started talking about the FL9 locomotives. Apparently, he had worked on rebuilding these engines in the 1980s.

From what I know, the FL9s were rebuilt around that time to be function on the LIRR "under-running" third rail so they could operate into Penn Station, but truthfully, this is something I know little about.

Before I could even ask about this however, he began insisting that before he worked on them, the FL9 was only Diesel powered. This simply is not the case, they were purpose built this way in the 1960s to run into Grand Central Terminal.

At this point, I'm stuck. If I tried to ask my question, I'd have to correct him or otherwise point out he was wrong, which makes me look like a jerk. Or I could just shut up, not learn anything, and be generally shut down.


I figure this is a difficult situation to resolve.

[FiatFan]

People who "know" they are right will not listen. It's easier to just walk away.

Tom

[ezdays]

Yes, walk away knowing that you're right and save yourself the possibility of an argument and the frustrations of trying to tell someone that knows it all that they don't.... There is nothing about this hobby, or any other for that matter, that is worth getting frustrated over. If I'm watching a movie about the cave man fighting dinosaurs, what could I gain by telling the producer that they supposedly never existed at the same time? He's happy with his thoughts, I'm happy knowing what I know about this relationship. This may be a bad analogy, but the point is, no matter what you say, you most likely won't change what this guy thinks, even if you're right, and you risk making an enemy of someone....

[railohio]

It's easier to just walk away.

QFT.

[teejay]

What goes round , comes round ....it will come out some day . Not worth an argument now .

[Green_Elite_Cab]

People who "know" they are right will not listen. It's easier to just walk away.

Tom

Yes, walk away knowing that you're right and save yourself the possibility of an argument and the frustrations of trying to tell someone that knows it all that they don't.... There is nothing about this hobby, or any other for that matter, that is worth getting frustrated over.

While the "FL9" discussion might be a more extreme example, I feel like I run into dozens of less clear-cut incidents like this every week that play out in a similar fashion. Most of these people are "stubborn know it all" types, they're just regular people.

I suppose my big fear is that I am the Know it all. I certainly have already earned that reputation.

At my club, I am notorious for taking one look at a modified track plan for a given area (of which most people are happy with the changes), and then finding all sorts of problems with it.

I don't go up to them like "THIS IS WRONG!", but I usually do try to communicate my rationale backed with evidence, and suggest alternatives. Much of the time my suggestions are reasonable and they get put into place. However, I can't shake that feeling that I'm coming off as "The Know it All", finding faults with everything, causing trouble.

Its frustrating because though I may have a few areas of expertise, I don't think I know more than anyone else overall, and I don't expect people to know everything (I know I certainly don't!). I don't think less of people.

I feel though, that every time I express a dissenting opinion, or present a fact that challenges someone's assertions, that I come off this way.

If I'm watching a movie about the cave man fighting dinosaurs, what could I gain by telling the producer that they supposedly never existed at the same time? He's happy with his thoughts, I'm happy knowing what I know about this relationship. This may be a bad analogy, but the point is, no matter what you say, you most likely won't change what this guy thinks, even if you're right, and you risk making an enemy of someone....

This reminds me of the intro to one of my favorite shows... "I you're wondering how he eats and breaths, and other science facts, just repeat to yourself its just a show, I should really just relax!" MST3K was all about the bad movies, but they had fun with them.

I tend to try to apply this thinking to model railroading as well. Its supposed to be fun first!

[Ralph]

You could print out a couple of reliable online sources of info about the FL9 and show then to him. Present them as "I thought you might be interested in this"

[talltim]

There's nothing wrong with being a know-it-all if you are right, can explain why clearly and don't push your viewpoint all the time

[ngauger]

I found during my stint volunteering at the Railroad Museum, that if you own the explaination it sugar coates it and everyone is happier.

If I knew something that was incorrect I would start out my information with one of the following:

I thought the FL9s......

That's interesting.. I was told that the FL9s.................

OK... I heard that the FL9's were........

or my favorite:
Neat!! But I was told years ago, the FL9s were.............

With those intros, you're blaming an obscure third party for possible mis-information, therefore beginning a conversation with any aggression or bad feelings directed away from the 2 or 3 participants. It worked every time!!

[faraway]

I thought the FL9s......
That's interesting.. I was told that the FL9s.................
OK... I heard that the FL9's were........
Neat!! But I was told years ago, the FL9s were.............

That is the way I do it too. It is fine iIf the other one takes the invitation to an open discussion. Otherwise do I stop and shut up.

[Brakie]

I've talk to many self appointed "experts" over the years and its best to let them flap their bean hopper since they know all the answers since they overstate the obvious and complicate the simple while overlooking basic knowledge...

[teejay]

Ha , the discussion reminds me of when I was in the car business . Women buyers are an important part of the business but always seem to want to bring along their husbands , boyfriends , brothers ....as if a man is supposed to be the " expert" . Usually they aren't but will pretend to be one and there in lies the problem . They have to save face because they are the "designated experts " To get them on my side and avoid a confrontation I would mention some fact about the particular car and quickly say to the "expert" , .........." but you already know that " , and it worked like a charm .

T

[Mike Kieran]

There's also the bottom line. Is it really important that you're right. If you know the truth and others don't want to, so be it. Remember, you still have the same amount of money in your pocket if he agrees or disagrees with you.

In his defense (sarcasm is being used here), a lot of the FL9s were diesel-only because the engines couldn't convert to 3rd rail pick up due to deferred maintenance.

[Sumpter250]

I guess the answer to this boils down to " just how civil you want to be to this person ", and the old adage, " Discretion is the greater part of valor " .

Typically, my response comes down to: "Hmmm, guess I'll have to research that a bit more before I start this project".
( The greatest place to live life, truly is, on the sharp leading edge of a learning curve )
and leave it at that. If someone is that convinced that they are right, you're not going to change their mind about it ---------
unless the person has been wrong repeatedly, and I am tired of all the misinformation. Then I simply walk away, giving no response at all.

[JaBear]

With the reputation of being as undiplomatic as a bear in a china shop, I have sympathy with your dilemma.
While this may be a hobby, (just sit back and don’t sweat about it) it certainly goes against the grain, for me, to allow mistakes to perpetuate themselves, and that goes for ones that I try not to make!
When I am proved wrong, I do admit it, though sometimes GRRRRR!!! :oops:
As has been already mentioned, I try and sugar coat my response, “But I was lead to believe.....”, “I’m sure I read.....”, “I respectfully suggest....” etc etc.

......but I usually do try to communicate my rationale backed with evidence, and suggest alternatives. Much of the time my suggestions are reasonable and they get put into place.

That is the best you can do, and as your recommendations are often implemented then you can’t be too wrong.

I can't shake that feeling that I'm coming off as "The Know it All"

Not in my book, over the years I have observed that most “know-it-alls and self appointed experts, do not have a reason or a rationale to offer. They, I no longer waste my time with.
Unfortunately there are those who can’t be and don’t like to be told, so in those cases I just walk away, one reason why I am no longer a member of the local club. I can only do this for so long!
Welcome to the Undiplomatic Corp.
Cheers, the (do it my way or else!!!) Bear.