MDC/ROUNDHOUSE locomotive rebuilds

[cnrglen]

After giving it some thought I decided to re-design the tender frame and the electrical pickup.

I didn't trust the drawbar pickup so I switched to a hard wired approach. I had my friend who installed the decoder add the wire with a connector from the tender to the decoder instead.

The tender shell has a slot in the front that I can feed the wire through and I drilled a hole in the back of the engine for the same. After testing it works much better.

I also decided not to use the bowser frame as it was all metal I was concerned about shorting the trucks through it. I'm still added some underframe details, I just wanted to make sure this worked before I went too far.

While I was at a swap meet a few months ago I came across these. The Canadian National Special interest Group had these Photo-etched number boards made up.

It will go under the headlight after painting. I think the same group made a set of cab numbers but I haven't found those so I'll just use decals.

[sailormatlac]

Is there something more classy than a CNR brass number plate? ;-) Don't be dissapointed about the raised cab numerals, it wasn't implemented on all locomotives and only occured late in CNR history. I think I'm ready too much Don McQueen's "Canadian National Steam!" lately!

Matt

[cnrglen]

Thanks Matt. I just hope I can get the red into the number plate to do it justice.
Well I finished the engine and tender to the point of disassembling them for painting:

I think the tender is fairly well proportioned to the engine. I may shorten the drawbar a bit in the future, when I'm confident that it will handle the curves on my layout.

I have tested it on my layout and it runs. It's a bit on the nosy side but I am dealing with a 30+ year-old design that's all cast metal and gears. I also noticed that I need to clean the wheels and add weight to the tender for better electrical contact.

I also replaced the missing tender ladder with the brass one from the bowser kit. It was the exact width that I needed and with a bit of bending, went right into the slots in the tender body. The handrails and cut bar were already on the shell.

[doctorwayne]

That's coming together very nicely, Glen.

.... I just hope I can get the red into the number plate to do it justice.....

I've found that the easiest way to do the CNR number plates is en masse. Leave all of the plates on the fret, and airbrush them with red - pretty-well anybody's "caboose red" should be okay. Once the paint has dried, use a piece of fairly fine wet/dry sandpaper, wrapped around a small block of wood so that the sandpaper remains flat as you rub it over the number plates (the paper should be used dry, not wet). When all of the plates look satisfactory - paint removed from all raised lettering and numerals and from the raised borders - blow-off any dust and sanding residue, then airbrush the entire fret with Glosscote or any other suitable clear gloss.
You can cut-out the needed plate(s) using an X-Acto blade - I usually use an older one, and simply give it a few passes over a stone to improve the edge a bit. Working on a hard surface, carefully position the blade for each cut, then press down firmly, making sure to restrain the plate when you make the last cut. If necessary, use a file to touch-up any rough spots on the edges, then spray (or brush) some clear gloss onto the edges, especially where the cuts were made. This not only maintains a uniform glossy finish, but also prevents those areas from tarnishing over time.
When you need another number plate for the next locomotive, you'll have one almost ready-to-use. The finished ones are also useful if you have friends also modelling CNR, as you can swap, give, or sell the ones you don't need and perhaps get ones in return which you do need.



Wayne

[cnrglen]

Thanks Wayne. I was thinking of painting the plate in red and carefully wiping it with a solvent-dampened q-tip but your way sounds a lot easier.
I am a bit stuck on the smokebox color on this model though. I've seen most of these engines having a black smokebox, a slightly different shade than the rest of the boiler but other engines with the silver smokebox. One top of that most color photos are of engines that are 'stuffed and mounted' in parks and could have been repainted. I do know that some of these have their running gear painted white to look good but wasn't prototypical.

[sailormatlac]

Thanks Wayne. I was thinking of painting the plate in red and carefully wiping it with a solvent-dampened q-tip but your way sounds a lot easier.
I am a bit stuck on the smokebox color on this model though. I've seen most of these engines having a black smokebox, a slightly different shade than the rest of the boiler but other engines with the silver smokebox. One top of that most color photos are of engines that are 'stuffed and mounted' in parks and could have been repainted. I do know that some of these have their running gear painted white to look good but wasn't prototypical.

Glen, the recent pictures of your model are really impressive. I don't know why, the it really has the CNR look at first glance.

About the smokebox colors, I've just completed reading too much books on CNR steam locomotives. It seems smokebox graphite mixes were lighter in the West than in the East, but seriously, you hardly see a difference in pictures. Nevertheless, color pictures from the 50s show the locomotive with very dark smokebox. It's the same on older pictures. All black, but with difference in shade and glossiness. And yes, most cosmetic restorations in city parks are real unreliable. I recently visited Exporail and all the steamers had flat black smokebox. I wouldn't certainly paint them gray, but rather a warm black.

I remember Doctorwayne once explained how he painted CNR locomotives with different shade of black. I followed it when I painted my CNR 2-8-0 a few years ago and I'm still pleased but the realictic look of the locomotive. His approach takes in account variation in glossiness which really bring a lot of realism.

Matt

[doctorwayne]

From what I've seen in photographs, most, if not all, CNR locomotives used an oil/graphite mixture on both the smokebox and firebox. Depending on the amount of each component, the appearance, when first applied could look somewhat silver due to the graphite content. However, once those areas got hot, the colour could change markedly - to various shades of grey, reddish-brown, or almost black.
I use several colours to paint my steamers, all based on black slightly lightened by the addition of some other colours. Lightening the black somewhat is more-or-less the first step in the weathering process, the majority of which will be done after painting and lettering has been completed.

The colour names used in these formulae are for Floquil or PollyScale paints (both discontinued) but you can simply substitute with whatever black, brown, grey, etc. colours are offered by your favourite brand of paint: for example, Roof Brown, Rail Brown, and Tie Brown are all different colours in the Floquil line, but any of them would give reasonable results in the formulae shown below. I'm also not too fussy on the proportions, adding each ingredient "by-eye" into a clean paint bottle.

Here are the paint proportions which I use:

CAB & TENDER:

5 parts Engine Black
1 part Roof Brown
1 part Grey Primer

BOILER, SMOKEBOX FRONT, & APPLIANCES:

3 parts of the Cab & Tender colour shown above
1 part Roof Brown
1 part Grey Primer

SMOKEBOX & FIREBOX:

1 part Engine Black
3 parts Roof Brown
1 part Grey Primer
Plus a little Reefer Orange and/or Caboose Red to suit

FRAME & RUNNING GEAR:

4 parts Engine Black
1 part Roof Brown
1 part Platinum Mist (a not-too-shiny-silver)

Here's CNR 3254 at Steamtown. The smokebox is various colours, although the lighter portions near the front and below the feedwater heater bundle may be the oil/graphite colour. The rest of it is considerably darker, mostly due to soot and cinders along with condensed steam from the stack, which causes the streakiness:



Here's a front view:



Notice that the smokebox front is the same light grey, which indicates that it was finished in the same manner as the rest of the smokebox. It may be oil and graphite but could also be paint. Most in-service CNR locomotives which I've seen in photos usually have the smokebox front painted the same colour as the boiler. However, this could vary, depending on where the locomotive was shopped.

This is CNR 6060, shown in regular passenger service in the mid-'70s:



The smokebox front is sheathed with a sheet metal nose cone, and is painted to match the boiler, while the smokebox itself is a greyish brown - certainly not silver, but perhaps it's been some time since it was treated to the oil/graphite mixture.

The firebox on this one is lagged (insulated), so the lagging has been painted similar to the boiler. It has picked up a little more road dust, though, so the colour isn't quite identical to that of the boiler - this effect is best done with weathering:



Here's one of my Athearn Mikados, painted using the formulae listed above, and weathered fairly lightly:



A recently-shopped CNR Ten Wheeler:



These Bachmann Ten Wheelers were painted based on the CNR practice of the smokebox front using the same paint as the boiler, even though the lighting makes the boiler look lighter:



A well-maintained 4-8-2...



While it's readily apparent that several colours have been used, I think that none stand out unduly, since they've all been mixed from the same colours, albeit in different proportions.

Finally, another well-cared-for CNR locomotive. Note the painted smokebox front, and the firebox similar in colour to the balance of the smokebox:



You can vary the colour mixes as you wish, of course, but my advice is to not paint the smokebox or firebox the same colour as the boiler. The effect of heat on those areas is part of the locomotive's over-all weathering and establishing those colours during painting rather than later, when weathering, should add to the realism of the finish.

If you want to mix a graphite colour, start with black, then lighten it a bit with grey, and add a not-too-metalic-looking silver. You'll have to experiment with the proportions, so I suggest using a brush for the initial experiments to determine the proportions needed of each. For instance, on a clean, non-porous surface, add 5 drops (or brushloads) of black, 2 of grey, and 3 of silver, then mix it using the same brush and paint a swatch of it on another non-porous surface. When it's dry, you should have a good idea of what colour adjustments are needed: perhaps the original mix, but with an extra 2 drops or brushloads of silver. Doing rough mixes in this manner saves paint (most of which is too expensive) and once you have a little practice, chances are that any colour mixing will become more instinctive than the initial hope-for-the-best attitude with which most of us begin.

Wayne

[doctorwayne]

Here's the procedure for applying clear finishes, to which Matt refers:

After the paint has cured for several days, it’s ready for lettering. I generally use dry transfers, so no clear coat is required on the flat Floquil paints. When using decals, I airbrush all of the area to be decaled with a fairly shiny semi-gloss finish - usually the cab sides, tender sides and rear, and air tanks and cylinders if they’re to receive lettering for test data. This finish, of course, is allowed to harden fully before applying the decals.
Once the loco has been lettered, all areas which previously received a gloss coat for decal work get another gloss coat - this gives a uniform finish to the area, as the gloss of a newly-applied decal isn’t necessarily the same gloss as the surface upon which it’s applied. When that has fully cured, I apply various clear finishes, again, applied without masking. The cab and tender sides and rear get a spray of fairly shiny semi-gloss, while the boiler, smoke box front, pilot, cylinders, and appliances receive a coat of “less-shiny” semi-gloss. An even flatter semi-gloss is applied to the running gear and frames of the loco and tender. The tender deck and interior of the coal bunker get an overspray of Dullcote, while the firebox and smoke box get no clear coat, as, to my eye, the dead flat finish of Floquil gives the effect that I want.

After those finishes have fully cured, add whatever weathering effects you want, but don't, when done, over-coat it with a clear matte finish: after all, prototype weathering was initially deposited on those glossy-painted surfaces, and while it did gradually dull the glossiness wherever it occurred, that shine would be somewhat visible through the dirt until the weathering got fairly heavy.

Wayne

[cn nutbar]

Here's some more examples of Doctor Wayne's painting skills

[cnrglen]

Thanks for the input fellows. I checked my paint stores and came up with these:

Turns out I have all the colors needed in Polly-s except the grey primer, but I do have two grays in Model master acrylic:

I'm sort of figuring the darker grey is the one closest to the primer color and should work for me.
In the meantime I disassembled and primered all the parts:

I had already painted the running gear and frame in a charcoal black color before assembling them and installing the DCC decoder so I'm hesitant to do any more than touch up and weathering sprays on them.

[cnrglen]

Well I bit the bullet, mixed some paint and ended up with this:

I think it turned out pretty good, with the colors fairly close to Doc Wayne's work.

It will look even better I hope when the decals and other paint accents are applied (windows, ect)
I'll spray the cab and tender with glosscote in preparation with the microscale decals I have set aside for it.

[cnrglen]

I've started to decal the engine but I'm having trouble finding some of the engine information. I'm looking for the rear of the tender info and the information printed beneath the cab numbers. I know the first set of numbers is the class (N-4-a) and the second is the % but I don't know what that would be.
Anyone help me out?

[cn nutbar]

Hi Glen---the haulage rating for N-4-A locomotives was 41%.Regarding the tender,the number of the engine was listed at about the half way point of it's height and below that in smaller print would be the water capacity and below that in the same print would be the coal capacity on the tender.I'll try to find a picture.

[cn nutbar]

Hope this helps---Doctor Wayne can probably provide details on the decals

[cnrglen]

Thanks. I had to substitute 37% for the 41% but it`s so small no one will notice.
Would the 6500 gallon and 10 tons be correct (approximately) for the athearn tender?