My expierience with big locos

[Schraddel]

Hello!

The following is part of a locomotive upgrading project. There were traditional styled brass castings of Commonwealth tender trucks. Each sideframe consists of an outer brass casting which represents the typical Commonwealth truck frame and an inner brass casting double acting as axle bearing and mounting plate for brake shoes. This double layer construction rises the measurement of the overall width of the trucks and made them very broad.


This photos also shows the double layer sideframes.
First step is to make drill starting points for the axle bearings in the outer castings. The inner side of them is flush and this procedure avoids the trouble to find out the exact location for it when the parts are divided. So it is simple to get the right locations.
The drilling is not very deep, just for starting points. I used a 1.5mm drill bit.




Next is you take your cutting-off wheel and clamp it in your Dremel or else. Wear eye protection!
First cut off the outer brake shoes. Carefully pay attention that they do not fly off anywhere into the universe ...
Then made four cuts in the inner casting where the axle bearings are to divide and separate them. The wanted parts are the brake shoes and the mounting angles. The unwanted parts are the six bearings which are the main reason why the trucks are so broad. So the inner brake shoes and the mounting angles will be stay fixed. In the photo one of them has got loose and will have be resoldered.
One of the sideframes looks a little bit strange.




Then drill the bores which will became the new axle bearings. Again a 1.5mm drill bit is used and as depth stop i used an lenght of a brass tube with 1.5mm inner diameter. Only the tip of the drill bit is now active and the brass tube limits the depth of the bore.
Later the bores were enlarged to 1.7mm as this 6 wheel truck is rigid and the axles must have some more bearing clearance ratio.




Then "release the brakes". By milling and filing the outer edges of the brake shoes so, that they under no circumstances do not touch the wheels anywhere.
Otherwise not only are the "brakes applied", there will be a solid short circuit. A very solid one




Here the strange sideframe was repaired by soldering small sections of suitable brass tube into the oversized holes.
Also the broken off mounting angle was resoldered.




Next is to narrow the center pieces of the trucks, Drill 2.0mm bores just beside the existing bores, but further to the middle.
File slots to connect the remaining inner halfs of the old bore with the new bore. Now this will have the form of a fork. Cut off excessive material on the tips of the forks to get the correct width, the cutting line will go just through the middle of the old bores.
Screw trucks together and make sure the outer frames are paralell.
Refit the outer brake shoes by soldering. Here also pay carefully attention the "brake is released".
Make a test run of the trucks on a powered strech of rails. Are there any sparks and electrical shorts?
When yes you have to remove further surplus material on the brake shoes.




Old vs reworked.



The brake shoes are now exact were they belong to. Not before, but just in the level of the wheel rims.



And this is how it looks now when mounted under the tender.



Good bye broadgauge.

So long, i hope you like this spleeny ideas of a emphasized maniac.

Lutz

Edit: grammatics, misspelling, supplementations

[postman]

Awesome work!.

[doctorwayne]

Very nicely done.

Wayne

[Tyson Rayles]

Nice bit of engineering!

[Schraddel]

Hello!

Sometimes life is like a ketchup bottle, at first nothing comes out of it, but then after a while a big blob finds it's way out, nearly uncontrollable at once.
So in this case, i had the chance to grip one of these rare unique opportunities which says: "Buy immediately for an incredible price or forget it."
So i purchased it. Here it were two brass engines out of an estate, not new, not complete, but not bad. Exactly, in this thread here i will describe the rebuilding, the improvements, the conversion to DCC and at least to running models.


One of the aquisitions is this Denver & Rio Grande Western L-105 Challenger type. Built 1972 by Katsumi and imported by Westside. Original box is present, but foam has been discarded because it decayed.





The pre-owner has painted the whole loco in brass colour for cosmetical restoring the foam damage. Later this loco will be painted, so the foam damage is not so crucial for me.










The second is an D&RGW M-68 4-8-4. A Key import of 1979 made by Samhongsa. This engine came without the box and without the original tender, but a tender of the correct type was provided. This tender was made 1962by Katsumi and imported by Max Grey.





This is what i have got last year. And paid for.
And last year was the US-Convention in Rodgau here on this side of the big pond. Two weeks before these engines were purchased.

Und guess who visited the Convention and had no money in spite of often so interesting offerings of the relvant dealers ...

Cheers Lutz

[sailormatlac]

Very fine prototype Lutz. Looking forward seeing them rebuilt and mechanically improved.

Matt

[Schraddel]

After an ample viewing and studying both locos, never before i had owned engines of this size, the decision was made to begin with the articulated first.


After removing the boilershell this was the sight under the shell. A huge open frame, the usual rubber tubes (hardened of course) and a additional universal joint between the two driving groups.
I remembered a can motor in the grab box, years ago recovered out of an old video player or elsewhere HiFi device. This can motor is for 12V, has absolutely no cogging and is very powerful. A ideal motor for powering a model loco, but it's size precluded service in a H0 loco. In this case the firebox is so huge, so that this motor will fit into.





When the old motor was removed it was time to take measurements. The new can motor will fit with a minimum of modifications.


Cheers Lutz

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I love the big engines! If I EVER had disposable income.... I'd be right in there with you. My two reliable HO Steamers are my UP Challenger and PRR J1, both pretty big.

Und guess who visited the Convention and had no money in spite of often so interesting offerings of the relvant dealers ...

Cheers Lutz

This is my perpetual experience, though I imagine its worse for you prototype steam folks. A lot of the commuter and electric trains are difficult to come by, and I get caught in a hard place everytime. If you don't pick it up while its there, its gone! However, this causes the planets to align, and the item you really want has to be passed over.

[Schraddel]

GEC, i agree to you. Time, opportunity and money are the contsituent parts you need for model railroading. But one of these things lacked. Ever.
Except for these very rare, very seldom opportunities when all three meet together.


The complete drivetrain was removed.





The gearboxes were disassembled to have a look into. The components were very clean but also very dry, no damages were found, no binds and they were running very quiet. So they will stay in this loco. After they got a good amount of Molykote grease, the gear boxes were reassembled.





These parts will not be used anymore. The drive shaft supports an the universal joint were placed into the grab box; you never know when you need them again, but the day will come. On the other side the hard rubber tubes were discarded.





The axial end play was reduced by means of washers to nearly "0". NWSL universal joints were fitted.
The strange bent wires, as seen in the photo, will give the torque levers. I will try something new.






This is the first attempt of a revised drive train. The motor was makeshift fixed with CA.
There are no more drive shaft supports between the two group of drivers. A single straight shaft replaced them.





This was my first attempt during handling of the loco to avoid the shaft with the horned ball slides out of the joint. Later i found a better way.
The torque lever was mounted onto the frame where once one of the supports. The screw has got a shoulder made out of a tiny piece of brass tube.
So the sprung action of the driver is not limited. And you are knowing now why they are bend so strangesome.





Meanwhile the motor was fixed with an solid brass strap. Two bore were drilled and tapped into the cast rear main frame extension.
Thisare the relative tiny universal joints of NWSL. The test of time will show how long they will last in this huge loco. :ugeek:



Cheers Lutz

[faraway]

I enjoy watching you and some others rebuilding and improving old brass steamers.
Those great brass models are a remembrance of my childhood when I marveled them in a shop downtown Hamburg close to the Jungfernstieg. They were unbelievable expensive at that time.

[Charlie B]

I will follow this rebuild and hope I can learn from you. so far, very good. I too love the big locomotives.
Charlie

[modelsof1900]

Lutz,
nice to see your step to large brass models and I'm sure that you makes a good job in changing and detailing of these models.
However I'm not sure if you not ought to go another way with rebuilding the power line, especially on the big articulated. Please compare your picture that I copied for this post.



The hardened plastic tubes by universal joints is a good and necessary change, absolutely!
But I'm not sure if the plastic parts of NWSL are a good and durable choice of material especially for the Challenger.
You remember my problems with absolutely identical parts that were used in later years by OMI, where they replaced the metal parts on their universal joints with plastic, especially the balls. All were cracked at the drive of my only diese loco frame and I need also to repair the cracked sockets in my Erie 0-8-8-0 L-1, an extraordinary expansive brass model however with defects on universal joints because plastic have been used for these parts.

You have replaced the motor by a more powerful one and I think that this model needs such a motor and this loco with a weight near to 3 pounds ought to pull 60 or 80 cars without problems. However I'm absolutely sure that this will not work with these fine univarsal parts made from plastic. I'm sure that the loco will run without a train, maybe with 10 or 15 cars on a small Fremo layout, but more?
My advise is to replace all the plastic parts of your universals by metal, all! However I know also from the problem about receiving universal joints which are made from metal, especially from brass in the needed size for our loco models.
What do you think about use of railing posts for ship models as a base in order to build the "connecting bone"? See this picture where I have built a fast made sample for you.



Ok, you must make the sockets too, however you own a lathe and a milling machine and so this would not be a big problem. However your model will not have a malfunction while the next presentation with friends or while pulling a longer train.
Here you will find some more offers of such railing posts on this catalog http://www.steba-modellbau.de/Katalog/index2.html on page 17 (Seite 17), railing posts for one, two or three ropes in different sizes. And I think that it will be a simple work if you need different lenghts of these "bones". You can cut them and solder again using a well fitting brass sleeve with the wished lenght.
I think that this ought to be a well working alternate for your loco and I'm sure that this will work, durably!
In next days I will write a short description on my website where I will like to present a second methode for scratch-built universal joints and if I have made some new pictures of this method I will like to present this also here.

However first, enjoy your new locos and I'm looking forward to see your next modifications. Wish you success!

[Tyson Rayles]

Are these O scale?

[Schraddel]

The problem with the cardan joints i will treat when one of the horned balls is really cracked.
Then plan B will take it's bearing:






Meanwhile the final execution was found. The problem was that during handling of the engine the shafts with the horned balls tends to slip out of it's counterpart. It was then a very painful process to get the joints reengaged. Often the boilershell has to be removed to get the universals back.
These jackets are now preventing all the hassle.
And often the telescoping steam pipes of the front engine slids out of their counterparts too. :wait:





This is the maximum angle which the two groups of drivers can deflect.





This is the running gear in a radius of app. 550mm. There is still play.


Cheers Lutz

[Tyson Rayles]

G gauge? :?