Thoughts re Hyper Loops?

[RobertInOntario]

Just curious as to what folks think of hyper loops? I had never heard of them until I saw it on the news today.

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hyperloop-elon-musk-levitating-pod-1.3499651">http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/hyperloop- ... -1.3499651</a><!-- m -->

Sounds like Sci-Fi but they are actually developing them.

(Like self-driving cars, I'm not too keen on this.)

Rob

[teejay]

My first impression is ...I'm not hyper about hyperloops . And the drive-itself cars ? Texters might like it since the cars they drive now are essentially driverless for periods of time .

[BR60103]

Is that anything like a Large Hadron Collider?

[teejay]

David , think Japanese bullet train ....

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I'll be more impressed when they can move more people.

Capacity is the real problem with the hyper loop. According to the sources I've found, it take 1 minute 8 seconds to stop the pods. That means a headway of about 1 minute 20 seconds so that the pod has time to stop in an emergency. The proposed pod carries only 28 people. That means in one hour, it can only move 1,292 passengers per tube.


While you may be able to get from point A to Point B in minutes, you could spend a few hours waiting to get on board. The hyper loop is really only good for low-density long distance trips.

[faraway]

...The hyper loop is really only good for low-density long distance trips.

The price per seat would be up in the sky. There is a lot of science fiction in the transportation technology.

[RobertInOntario]

...The hyper loop is really only good for low-density long distance trips.

The price per seat would be up in the sky. There is a lot of science fiction in the transportation technology.

Agreed, but the way the article is written, they make it sound as if they've made great strides with this and that it could become a reality sooner than expected.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

The price per seat would be up in the sky. There is a lot of science fiction in the transportation technology.

Agreed, but the way the article is written, they make it sound as if they've made great strides with this and that it could become a reality sooner than expected.

I think where it could compete is with regional commuter flights that are beyond the scope of a regional passenger train. Just using some google facts, it claims that a trip between New York City and Washington DC is:

204.11 miles
This distance is equal to 204.11 miles, and 177.25 nautical miles. The distance line on map shows distance from New York to Washington D.C. between two cities. If you travel with an airplane (which has average speed of 560 miles per hour) between New York to Washington D.C., It takes 0.36 hours to arrive.

Meanwhile, the hyper-loop is supposed to have an average speed of 600 MPH (and a 760 MPH top speed), and so it will take around 0.34 hours to arrive. While it is not significantly faster from point A to B, you can only land so many aircraft.

I don't know how many flights there are between New York City and Washington DC, but a quick look on Expedia seems to indicate that they are roughly hourly, with less trips during the non-rush times. Most commuter and short distance aircraft I looked up (like the Bombardier Dash-8 and the Boeing 737) can only handle 50 to 200 passengers respectively, at their greatest capacities (according to YouTube).

If they left at the same time, the hyper-loop would deliver the first few people to Washington DC faster. With 8 trips at a 1.4 minute headway, you could deliver the entire 200 seat capacity of the 737 in 11.4 minutes. During that time, the 737 passengers may still be stuck in the gate getting off the plane.


Depending on how crowded the skies are, it may take time to land the next New York to Washington DC flight, and every 11.4 minutes, another 737's worth of passengers are arriving via the hyper-loop. In theory, this is taking less energy and fuel to do than an airliner. I'm not sure it would be realistic for the airline to keep up with this, especially considering there are other flights from other places trying to land and take off.


In this regard, a hyper loop is competitive.

[Russ Bellinis]

Could multiple pods be coupled together like a train. 10 pods would then carry 280 people for the same trip.

[MountainMan]

I keep coming back to Jurassic Park and Goldblum's ultimate comment: "Just because you can create something doesn't mean you should...or that its even a good idea."

Mankind's obsession with speed in everything has largely destroyed our civilization and given us entire generations of young people with the attention span of gnats.

[RobertInOntario]

I keep coming back to Jurassic Park and Goldblum's ultimate comment: "Just because you can create something doesn't mean you should...or that its even a good idea."

Mankind's obsession with speed in everything has largely destroyed our civilization and given us entire generations of young people with the attention span of gnats.

Yes, and gadgets and video games don't help either.

[dave1905]

I'll be more impressed when they can move more people.

Capacity is the real problem with the hyper loop. According to the sources I've found, it take 1 minute 8 seconds to stop the pods. That means a headway of about 1 minute 20 seconds so that the pod has time to stop in an emergency. The proposed pod carries only 28 people. That means in one hour, it can only move 1,292 passengers per tube.

Its actually not that close of spacing. If the you are operating at 1.3 minute headways then if one car stops ALL the cars have to stop at exactly the same time, which means that all the cars have to start stopping as soon as the first car starts stopping. Look at it this way if the car travels 1 mile in the time it takes to stop, the cars behind it will have traveled 2 miles (assuming they don't stop at the same time). That means that you effectively need to space the cars 3 stopping distances apart.

The next problem is how long does it take to unload/reload the cars? Since this is long distance travel, you have to assume the people have baggage. So lets say you can unload people and baggage in two minutes then reload people in baggage in 2 minutes. So that's 4 minute in addition to the spacing. Now we are up to 7-8 minute headways.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

I keep coming back to Jurassic Park and Goldblum's ultimate comment: "Just because you can create something doesn't mean you should...or that its even a good idea."

Mankind's obsession with speed in everything has largely destroyed our civilization and given us entire generations of young people with the attention span of gnats.

Yes, and gadgets and video games don't help either.

I strongly disagree. When properly applied, that speed allows us to do great things with significantly less effort. A few weeks ago, I was asked to find a location for a photo. It was A.) taken in a place I had never been to, and B.) taken over a decade before I was born. I was able to do it in less than an hour, and get right down to the google street view of the exact spot.

Could you imagine how hard, or how long, it would have taken me to find that location with out my "High speed" internet and fancy gadgets that allow me to go places I've never been and see through time? If I was LUCKY, someone took a similar recognizable picture in one of my books somewhere. Otherwise, it would just be another generic Industrial wasteland in NJ somewhere along the Hudson river.

Don't blame "speed" and "gadgets" for people's lack of attention. That "gnat attention span" is a flaw with that person. Don't think for a minute that if you took those things away that they wouldn't go occupy themselves with the next most vapid thing.

[Green_Elite_Cab]

Its actually not that close of spacing. If the you are operating at 1.3 minute headways then if one car stops ALL the cars have to stop at exactly the same time, which means that all the cars have to start stopping as soon as the first car starts stopping. Look at it this way if the car travels 1 mile in the time it takes to stop, the cars behind it will have traveled 2 miles (assuming they don't stop at the same time). That means that you effectively need to space the cars 3 stopping distances apart.

The next problem is how long does it take to unload/reload the cars? Since this is long distance travel, you have to assume the people have baggage. So lets say you can unload people and baggage in two minutes then reload people in baggage in 2 minutes. So that's 4 minute in addition to the spacing. Now we are up to 7-8 minute headways.

So much for my arguements. I guess it can still maybe out run a small plane?

In the end, I guess it doesn't matter. They'll build this thing whether it makes sense to or not. Everyone will pat themselves on the back for making US passenger travel top dog again (even if it is just on paper).

I can't shake the feeling that a lot of this high-speed rail (or hyper loop) stuff is more about international jealousy than necessity.

[MountainMan]

I strongly disagree. When properly applied, that speed allows us to do great things with significantly less effort. A few weeks ago, I was asked to find a location for a photo. It was A.) taken in a place I had never been to, and B.) taken over a decade before I was born. I was able to do it in less than an hour, and get right down to the google street view of the exact spot.

Could you imagine how hard, or how long, it would have taken me to find that location with out my "High speed" internet and fancy gadgets that allow me to go places I've never been and see through time? If I was LUCKY, someone took a similar recognizable picture in one of my books somewhere. Otherwise, it would just be another generic Industrial wasteland in NJ somewhere along the Hudson river.

Don't blame "speed" and "gadgets" for people's lack of attention. That "gnat attention span" is a flaw with that person. Don't think for a minute that if you took those things away that they wouldn't go occupy themselves with the next most vapid thing.

Unfortunately for that claim, the faster you travel, the longer you have to wait to leave and arrive. You can travel by aircraft at 350 - 400 mph, but you must wait up to two hours to board and take off, wait to land and endure endless more waiting claiming your baggage and then somehow reaching you final destination, which is NOT the airport itself.

And then you arrive tired, angry, frustrated and out of sorts.

As for finding things on Google, surely you are not attempting to equate an internet search with actual physical travel.

Speed and gadgets are responsible in large part for the gnat's brain mentality these days. Why bother to think about something if your mental objective can change literally every second of your day? And why else do the Marching Morons talk and text on their cellphones while hurtling along the roads at speeds up to 80 mph? Obviously, controlling a tow ton high speed mass of metal isn't enough to keep their attention focused for even a brief period of time. They need more, the constant electroshock therapy that constitutes "communication" and "social skills" in the New World of Lemming Insanity.

Remember - in ALL of its forms - speed kills.