Bowser Loco Kits

[Sumpter250]

I'm sorry that the "builders" don't seem to carry enough influence in the market to have suppliers even maintain interesting and affordable offerings

Bob, "builders" do carry influence, there's just not enough of us left for that influence to be felt.

in a kit, they don't need to make the investment in LABOR that a RTR loco requires.

Absolutely!!!!!! So, why don't kits sell as well as RTR ? :?: :?: :?:

Its a closure of history..When I was 10 years old I built my first Penn-Line kit,a PRR H9 2-8-0,under my dad's experience watchful eye...It was pure joy when the engine moved for the first time.That's the type of joy we can't get by simply opening a box..Doesn't come close to comparing the joy and yes pride..

The majority of modern model railroaders....bought RTR!!!!
The profits were in RTR.
The kit manufacturers went to RTR, to stay in business.
When I first started in this hobby, there wasn't the variety....the detail was all in brass....I could barely afford the materials to build with, much less buy kits, or more expensively, buy RTR (read that brass, considering the times).
I built! I read and enjoyed the "construction articles" in MR, and I built some of them. To get the detail for the die cast loco kits, I bought cast brass parts, one at a time.
It became a discipline.

I was part of this hobby before the "I want it all, and I want it now" era.
The last laugh, however, is that those of us who "took on the discipline of building" will continue to enjoy the hobby. Those who took the easier path of RTR, will have to learn "the discipline", or find another hobby.
We may yet see the resurrection of the scale parts industry....come back all ye of Kemtron, Cal Scale, Scale Structures Limited, and all the others whose names escape me at the moment,fame.....come back to the hobby magazines, the construction articles that long ago made modelers of us "model" railroaders.......come back all ye heroes like John Allen, Al Armitage, Mel Thornburgh, Jack Work.....teach us again how to build models.
The pride of ownership, lasts only until the next thing to own comes along. The pride of accomplishment....the joy of doing...now that lasts forever.and costs so much less

[tetters]

Gotta say that I get the most enjoyment by building things. Not just MRR stuff either, just in general. There is an immense satisfaction I get from taking a pile of parts and creating something useful or more importantly, FUN!

It is sad to see these go. Does anyone know if they will continue to sell until the stock runs out?

[Bob C]

I don't know that Bowser's course can be changed, and certainly don't intend to harass Lee English. Perhaps inquiries and alerting him to a market when economic conditions allow would not be out of line.
From Lee English <bowser@bowser-trains.com>
to Bob Carbaugh <chooch.42@gmail.com>
date Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:51 PM
subject Re: Steam engines Reply

yes we have discontinued HO steam loco kits. parts are still available.

no plans to make N steam.
the market does not support conversion kits - all has to be ready to run in HO and N



Thank you
Lee English - Bowser Mfg
http://www.bowser-trains.com

[nachoman]

the market does not support conversion kits - all has to be ready to run in HO and N

I think I understand. I have often thought about making some kind of simple mold and casting a half dozen cars in resin that I need for my railroad. I have often thought of recovering some of my equipment costs by casting additional cars, and selling them as kits. And then I thought I could make a small line, of conversion boilers or what-not. But then I think people may not like drilling their own holes and installing their own grab irons. Or they may complain that a rivet is misplaced. But the reality is, the cost I would have to charge per kit would be almost as much as someone could get a similar piece as RTR. I can't compete. Even if Bowser produced a accurate USRA 2-8-2 - at the cost they sell them for, they couldn't compete with those that sell RTR. People would rather pay that extra hundred bucks than spend a few weeks assembling one themselves.

[nkp_174]

the market does not support conversion kits - all has to be ready to run in HO and N

But the reality is, the cost I would have to charge per kit would be almost as much as someone could get a similar piece as RTR. I can't compete. Even if Bowser produced a accurate USRA 2-8-2 - at the cost they sell them for, they couldn't compete with those that sell RTR. People would rather pay that extra hundred bucks than spend a few weeks assembling one themselves.

There is little collectors market for RTR outside of brass. But, there is a collectors market for craftsman kits (FSM kits selling for 3x the original price, Don Winter kits going for several times their original price, etc). They offer models which are not available from other sources and generate sufficient interest that people feel the need to stock up. Many NKP modelers (active and armchair) have purchased $60 brass car sides for the 80 series coaches. Those NKP modelers need H-5 2-8-2s more than they need 80 series coaches. NYC modelers especially need H-5s, they were the most common 2-8-2s on the road with the largest roster of 2-8-2s. Yet, the only source has been old brass imports.

Bowser has suffered from manufacturing techniques which require substantial tooling costs. Too many examples are the marrying of one boiler to 3 locomotives or 1 mechanism to 2 locomotives. Signs that the tooling is a killer for them. They would need to change techniques to gain the flexibility to fulfill the modern kit market.

There is some sort of rule about the work required to turn a model into an accurate model versus starting elsewhere. Bowser really suffered here because too many details needed work...especially metal details. If a model doesn't require extra work, you're off to a good start. If there aren't other sources, even better! The market for craftsman kits is in between brass and RTR. This has been demonstrated in many markets outside of US steam. Something common enough that people want or need it, but not common enough that they can put off on buying it...and will stockpile. The beauty of limited runs for a manufacturer.

[BR60103]

From the suppliers point of view there is another headache in kits that RTR doesn't have -- parts.
An RTR loco or car is put together and they know it is complete. A kit locomotive is (up to) hundreds of separate parts which have many opportunities to go missing. Replacing parts that "weren't in the box" can make a major dent in slim profit margins.
I consider assembly time part of the value of buying a kit; apparently others don't.

[iis612]

I am glad that I got my kits when I did. I would like to get my hands on a few more before they are impossible to find.
Perhaps they aren't perfect in the details, but they are so much fun to build.
I love kit building, but I have to admit that I have bought alot of RTR stuff too. I am willing to bet that we will see a come back. While the trend does seem to be shifting towards RTR, someone will come up with a kit that has a price tag that can't be ignored.

Matt

[Russ Bellinis]

It would appear from the email posted to the thread on building a Bowser Mikado on the ho forum that Bowser is not simply discontinuing the steam locomotive kits, they are dropping all steam locomotives and detail parts completely. If it was any other company except English, we might have a hope of some of the tooling being sold to another manufacturer, but English seems to keep their tooling in case there is a demand in the future for the products, but once out of production, there is little hope of it coming back. Even if they don't put steam engines back into production, I would like to see the Cal Scale line of steam engine detail parts continued, but I fear that this may be only the first of many detail parts manufacturers either discontinuing production of the detail parts or going out of business completely. I'm afraid "model railroading" is rapidly moving to "layout construction" with r-t-r equipment rather than model building.

[nkp_174]

I'm afraid "model railroading" is rapidly moving to "layout construction" with r-t-r equipment rather than model building.

If that happens, ouch! Perhaps the thing to do is purchase any parts which you might need...and if they aren't available...make your own duplicates for personal use. I don't like the idea at all with anything currently (or to be) in production, but I think it is a little different when something is no longer available (and you are not making money off of it...the big issue with copyrights).

I interpreted their emails as meaning that Cal-scale was fine...the super detailing parts are safe...but the steam kit specific parts...frames, drivers, boilers, tenders were being dropped.

In other news, I've learned that BTS is coming out with a new HO kit! They are planning for an assembled frame/running gear/motor made in the USA...plus pewter parts from New Zealand. Unfortunately, the first set of masters for the boiler, cab, and such were lost by the postal service His cost will be $300...so it won't be cheap. The kit is supposed to be a Civil War era locomotive...IIRC, the outside frame General. I think I saw it on the Early Rail group...

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I would hate to see the HO world become little more than dollhouse building with stock RTR trains running through it... Building trains is my favorite part. If I was a free-lance HO modeler, I'd have built a number of the Bowser locomotives already...as I wouldn't care as much about it having the correct valve gear and such...since correct would be whatever type my road's shop prefers (and I could have a plausible reason for)!

Michael