Gary S Wrote:Here is what I am thinking... cut the bents to be the exact height, then, since these are plastic tube, I can insert some smaller diameter plastic rod in a couple of the piles and drill holes in the "water" to keep them in place.

Geez! You ARE thinkin'!!!

This morning, put down some dirt under and around the bridge. Didn't do anything else on the bridge, but did work on other train room projects. Here's how she sits now:

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Now I need advice on how to create scenery to mimic something like this. Any help and guidance would be most appreciated! I've never done foliage before!!!

HELP!

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Try static grass...

I agree that static grass can play a part here. But there is such a huge variety of plants here. The static grass can be the short weeds, but what about the tall weeds? And the bushes? And what order would I do the various things?

I would look at Silfor, pot toppers, static grass and check some of the other grass products from Busch. They have some sort of large grass sheets that you can try. The sheets can either be torn apart or just laid out as a base they have one variety with a paper back and the other with a self adhering back. I would also look at the Super Trees some peices of those would be good for the bushes.

Depending on the type of greenery you're trying to model, lichen with ground foam added, WS clump foliage, also with ground foam added. or small twig armatures with very thinly-stretched polyfibre and an application of ground foam can look good. Also, try these with static grass added instead of, or with, ground foam. Even some teased-out polyfibre with ground foam added will work. This is the kind of stuff you almost have to take a stab at - sometimes it'll work, and other times it won't.

Wayne

Okay... so let's say i will use the following:

static grass
ground foam
clump foliage
Some of the taller grass like Steve uses
polyfiber and ground foam on small limbs for the larger bushes

What order would I use in putting this stuff down? This mainly concerns the static grass. I assume the static grass and the ground foam could go on in the same step, then the bigger stuff could be added second?

Gary...I know next to nothing about grass, the modeling or any other kind....So I'll let those that know handle that end of things...

But that DIRT... It's great..!! What is it...?? You seem to have various types all mixed in there and it looks too real to be true....How did you go about getting so "dirty"..??

Since you have never done greenery before - you may want to make a "test diorama" to test out various techniques. I bet ou were already anticipating that, though. After that, I pretty much echo DrWayne's suggestions. For the tall grass - it appears this is a variety that grow in "clumps", and I would use Woodland Scenics' field grass for that. Static crass seems a bit too short and uniform to me for the area you are trying to emulate. There may be some areas of the scene where you want to try static grass, but I would not cover the whole scene with it. And don't forget to look over some of Harold's techniques. <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/">http://www.pacificcoastairlinerr.com/</a><!-- m --> His Faux fur grass has promise.

Gary S Wrote:What order would I use in putting this stuff down? This mainly concerns the static grass. I assume the static grass and the ground foam could go on in the same step, then the bigger stuff could be added second?

1. Basic ground cover, dirt rocks, grass.
2. Tall grasses
3. Small shrubs
4. Large shrubs
5. Trees.....here, I would plant the large trees first, then add the "new growth", close to, but not in the shadow of, the larger trees.

- Tall grasses: probably the WS field grasses.
- Small Shrubs: Some of the smaller commercially available pre-builts, or bits of expanded Polyfiber with ground foam added.
I use clear gloss spray lacquer as an adhesive, and sift WS coarse turf over it....repeat process until "plant" is leafy enough.
- Large shrubs: up to six pieces of fine wire twisted ( about 1/4" ) then spread the individual wires out as branches, solder the twisted base, and paint.
Expand a pinch of polyfiber ( or several ), and attach to the wire branches, spray and sift.
- Trees: basically larger versions of large shrubs...get several colors of coarse turf, nature isn't all the same green.
The larger bits of coarse turf, that won't go through the sifter screen, can be added as weeds.
- Conifers: You can use the " bottle brush " trees....hack them up a bit so they are not quite as perfectly conical, add a little sifted green where the " exposed " areas show brown. You can cut the tops off, reshape the bottom and have a small tree, and a medium tree for the price of one large one. I use tin snips/sheers to butcher the bottle brush trees.
For built up conifers I use, a tapered wood trunk, wire branches, an open netting ( approx. 1/8" openings ) cut to rough shape, glued to the wire branches, and then "spray and sift ".
Oh, when adding ground foam to trees, etc.:
1. Spray the underside, and sift, Holding the tree upside down. then tap the trunk to shake the loose bits....they will usually fall, but some will help fill in other branches.
2.Turn tree right side up, spray, sift, tap.
3.Hold sideways,rotate,and...spray, sift, tap.
repeat process until "leafy" enough.

Over a fifteen year period, I had built and added over 270 individual trees to my 2' X 12' of modules. Fortunately, my new module set has far less real estate that will need " foliage "( although, I still would like to build a convincing HO scale Willow ).

S250, thanks for all that advice. I've got a busy few days coming up at work, but this weekend should find time to do some experimenting on a mock-up. Someone before, I believe it was Kevin (nachoman), said to make the test mock-up sized to fit in a garbage can! Good advice! Today, I did purchase some of the Heki products that Steve and Kurt use. I have a bunch of ground foam of various sizes, clump foliage, and I have around 200 trees that I built several years ago, using tree limbs, poly-fiber, and foam.

Gee, this scenery thing should be the "funnest" part, but it has me really nervous. :?

From the "pages" of Big Blue:

Heki wildgrass tutorial by Steve.

Andrew

Quote:Gee, this scenery thing should be the "funnest" part, but it has me really nervous.

Why? Why does it have to be the funnest, I mean? There's a reason (or two) that many layouts never make it past the 'Plywood Pacific' stage. The reason most often given is that folks are afraid of doing a poor job on scenery - based on what they see in magazines & online, naturally. But I think there's another reason less often quoted; that some folks have so much fun building benchwork, laying track and yes, even wiring, that they reach a point where operations become possible and are perfectly content to stop there with no interior motivation to scenic a square inch. Getting trains running is the visionary goal; scenery is secondary or perhaps will always look better imagined than realized, so they think.

You are proving even by your early work, as is Steve with his shelf layout, and others, that really great scenery isn't that hard if you're willing to experiment and tear it out if necessary to start again. I think you'll do just fine - as long as you're happy with it!

Galen

Gary S Wrote:Gee, this scenery thing should be the "funnest" part, but it has me really nervous.

ocalicreek Wrote:Why? Why does it have to be the funnest, I mean?

Because it is the final step that brings the miniature creation to life. It is like the crowning achievement, and a chance to be artistic and creative. But I see your point. My reasons equate more to "satisfying" than fun.

ocalicreek Wrote:There's a reason (or two) that many layouts never make it past the 'Plywood Pacific' stage. The reason most often given is that folks are afraid of doing a poor job on scenery - based on what they see in magazines & online, naturally. But I think there's another reason less often quoted; that some folks have so much fun building benchwork, laying track and yes, even wiring, that they reach a point where operations become possible and are perfectly content to stop there with no interior motivation to scenic a square inch. Getting trains running is the visionary goal; scenery is secondary or perhaps will always look better imagined than realized, so they think.

Good point. I admit that I had alot of fun building the building, the benchwork, and doing all the wiring and controls. But I have major incentive to get this layout to a "completed" stage, then from there, it'll be adding details upon details as the layout matures. Yesterday I ordered a static generator to build a flocking machine, and also ordered a bunch of static grass and flock and Heki grass and all that. I already have 250 trees that Vicki and I made several years ago. Am going to start running scenery experiments to get the hang of how it all works. After that, should be a breeze!

ocalicreek Wrote:You are proving even by your early work, as is Steve with his shelf layout, and others, that really great scenery isn't that hard if you're willing to experiment and tear it out if necessary to start again. I think you'll do just fine - as long as you're happy with it!

I appreciate that! I have confidence it will all be just fine.