mountaingoatgreg Wrote:Another vote for plan 1

I hate to be so unoriginal but the addition of another car type is alwasy interesting.

The other advantage is that it could be modeled without a real building, just a concrete area with a fence. I have even seen where there is no dock and they just use forklifts. If they get a boxcar they unload as much as possible with one forklift from the doorway, then lift up another forklift inside to bring the rest to the door to hand off to the other for completing the process. Since this building would be a foreground building you would not have anything very tall to reach over to access your other industries. The other advantage of a non specific random concrete area, it can easily be changed to take otehr products such as a transload facility for oil, or sand or pipe or wahtever else you want.

I am (again) leaning toward some sort of transload track and I'm pretty well covered for the car types that might spot there. Got plenty of bulkhead flats and double door box cars suitable for building products. Could have a tank car transload, covered hoppers, etc. Would use something like what you describe; simply track in a concrete pad with a chain link fence and gate and perhaps some other details, depending on what is off loaded there. There are several prototype examples close by so will have to go take a look at some of them. One facility nearby receives tank cars of grain alcohol that is delivered to the Old Grandad distillery. Here's the location I'm talking about: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=qbxmgn7...orm=LMLTCC don't get much simpler then that.

mountaingoatgreg Wrote:Now start building.....

There in lays the hard part - getting started! Just too many prototype idea floating around in the old head and that really holds me back!

*** EDIT ***
With all this planning and re-planning, one thing that I hadn't been figuring on with the layout is the fact that I can add a 6ft or 8ft staging track to the left end of the bench work. Wouldn't call it a cassette, as it would be semi-permanent, but could allow for either spacing things out a bit more or adding another track or two on the main part of the layout. This staging track would need be only 6 or 8 inches deep - just enough to have one or two tracks for train staging on it. So I may look at that too.

See what I mean about getting started?

I know this is really getting old, but since all the track has been pulled from my layout to paint the foam a base earth color and still without a "final" plan; I was thinking about the occasional discussions on whether or not to include a team or transload track on the layout. I think you guys have talked me in to including that on my plan, so I did some looking around for something upon which to base a simple plan with a transload facility as a main industry.

Remembering a bulk transload facility located at the end of an industrial spur that I'd seen in good old Miami, Florida, I thought "If I wanted to keep things really simple, what could I do with an extended version of the Palmetto Spur and include some features of this location?" YIKES!! Haven't you already done something like that Ed old boy? Well yes, but that was more or less done just to get a feel for how much operation a simple plan like that would provide. Quite a bit in fact, especially with larger industries and longer tracks.

This is a Google aerial view of the location in Miami:[attachment=10245]Here is what I came up with, designed to fit a lengthened version of the Palmetto Spur. Plan size is 18in X 20ft:[attachment=10247]Of course the Florida Bulk Terminal would make for a complete ISL by itself and that could be a possibility too, as there are some warehouses on the west side of the terminal tracks that would fit against a backdrop if you were viewing the terminal looking westward. And there, in that sentence, is the idea of another possible track plan! Will have to see what I can do with that idea.

Having only a single long track for the transload terminal on my plan is really scaling things down; but you can find plenty of single track transload facilities around the country, so it is believable. I have considered having the transload consist of two parallel tracks, but that may crowd it too much as I'd want to have enough room by the tracks for a few trucks.

This location also interested me because there are two other industries close by that would fit in great for for my plan. Right across the street from the terminal is the Colmar Storage warehouse and just beyond Colmar is Entenmann's Bakery - perfect for my Walther's bakery kit that I'm going to lengthen and modify. Moving Colmar and Entenmann's to the same spur, fits pretty well and makes for a simple plan with three good sized customers on it.

I love the way that the spur leading to the bulk terminal runs between several structures - that good old concrete canyon look! On my transload, I'm showing a dock at the end of the track and a truck scale at the entrance to the facility. The dock could be replaced with a simple shed over the corn syrup unloading spots - might be more interesting since bulkhead flats and box cars of building materials or other products can be unloaded from street level. The storage warehouse would have a long open loading dock (like the prototype structure) with a couple of fork lifts, some pallets and sacks/boxes of products on it. The modified bakery structure will have a shed over the hopper unloading area and a truck or two at the end of the building.

Right now, we'll just consider this an experiment with what can be done with a lengthened version Palmetto Spur. Whether I go with this plan or not, perhaps it might inspire someone else. If this develops in to something workable, then I'll start a new thread. Have about worn this one out!

*** EDIT ***
Since I brought up the subject of a plan with a transload terminal as the main industry, I threw this plan together:[attachment=10244]Roughly a mirror image of the prototype location, but of course with fewer tracks and included the bakery on this spur. Can't say that I'd be happy with a plan like this for my own layout, but will look around at some various locations and see if there could be a prototype track arrangement that might be more to my own liking and where the transload doesn't look so over powering. At this point, I actually prefer the simpler plan above.

While I haven't lived there since 82 I never heard of NS tracks going any further south than Jacksonville The only trackage in Miami was the old Seaboard, now CSX and the FEC. When did the NS get trackage rights that far south and from which RR?

Thanks for correcting me on that big boo-boo Mike! That bulk terminal is owned by Thoroughbred Bulk Terminals a division of NS and even though I was sure that NS didn't venture in to Miami, I made a very incorrect assumption based only on that tidbit of information. Guess it's something like when BN had a piggyback terminal in Louisville, KY for a few years that was actually on the Paducah & Louisville Railroad. Sorry about the incorrect information - it's been removed. :oops: (He hangs his head in shame and goes back to his part of the country)

No need to hang your head, it's been thirty years since I was that far south but I'm in central Fla. every year (just got back as a matter of fact) so they may could have been going there now. However they don't go thru central Fla. so I was wondering how they leapforgged over and into the southern part of the state? No big deal and it doesn't change the fact that you got a good project going. One question however. Why are you modeling down there and the thread is tittled the L&N Industrial Rail Spur ?

Tyson Rayles Wrote:One question however. Why are you modeling down there and the thread is tittled the L&N Industrial Rail Spur ?

Mike;
I'm not modeling that area, just using it for ideas for a freelance layout. I look for interesting prototype track arrangements and industries for the basis for a freelance layout and from areas all over the country. Most of the layouts I've ever started over the years were always based on a prototype, and almost always a short line; but this time I'm going freelance with an L&N theme, as it was one of my railroad employers. Heck, it may end up being a purely freelance railroad company too. I rather like the name Kentucky Terminal Company (KTML) so there's a potential freelance railroad.

Even though the L&N operated in to Pensacola, FL, I have no interest in that part of the country and looking at the area, never found anything that appealed to me about it. Far more interesting things in other areas on former L&N lines, such as Georgia and some places right here in Kentucky. In that regard, I decided some time ago that the only way I was going to be able to include things on the layout that I really like would be go freelance.

I still can't believe that I made a goof up like I did about what rail line that is in Miami, so I'll be a lot more cautious in the future. Hate to see incorrect information or information based on assumptions put out as fact so it does bother me that I'd make a goof like that!

As for this thread, I should probably just end it and not post anything else until such time as I actually get something going. I'm spending far too much time planning and on Google/Bing maps, when I should be building.

Ed,This has been a very thought provoking topic and there is many excellent industries and layout plan ideas to ponder over.

IMHO this is probably one of the best topics on planing a freelance ISL based on real industries and prototypical track plans I ever had the pleasure of following..

Brakie Wrote:IMHO this is probably one of the best topics on planing a freelance ISL based on real industries and prototypical track plans I ever had the pleasure of following..

Gee thanks Larry! I need a morale boost! I'm still not getting anywhere with the layout at the moment other than to try and do a few things that should have been done months ago. Too eager to run something and skipped a few steps in the process. Of course that eagerness has allowed me to do a lot of testing of some of my plans and most important RUN SOMETHING - so guess that wasn't a bad thing.

A week ago, I was in a real slump about working on the layout, almost to the point of losing interest in it completely. Then a couple of days ago, the bug bit me again and I was all fired up to start building something. However, before I even get started, I think of something else and I'm stuck again!

I think that perhaps I'm putting too much emphasis on the track plan rather than my ultimate goal of realistic operation. After all, an industrial spur is not like trying to model the DRGW in the Rockies, and I've demonstrated to myself that even a simple track plan like what I last posted, provides plenty of prototypical operation. But I keep wondering to myself if I'd be satisfied with something like that.

I keep looking back over the track plans that I have come up with and especially ones that I actually laid out and operated for a while. Most of them look pretty much the same, just with minor variations; so perhaps I've already found the right plan for my available space. Anyway, I'm still playing around some with the track planning software and experimenting on the layout, so maybe it will fall together soon.

Well Ed I agree this thread is good for bouncing ideas around so I wouldn't want to see you end it. I know what you mean about needing to get started building, been there done that. I agree that the L&N has some very model worthy trackage and scenery. When I was planning my layout (like you) I knew I had to freelance to do what I wanted in the tiny amount of space (14 sq. ft. not counting two, 2 track staging yards) I had to work with. I liked a lot of things about the Murphy branch of the Southern so I went for a freelance that interchanges with it. Therefore I have the same basic scenery/customers/architecture but within reason could do my own thing and still have other equipment from the L&N/Southern/Graham County/ect. show up on my rails. In other words I think you are on the right track (pun intended of course )! Have you considered modeling a junction? That is what I ended up doing. My RR handles the interchange traffic and two customers for two other RR's at the junction as well as having a VERY short mainline which is a run up the mountain to a small town with two more customers. This gives a lot of action in a very small space. Besides all the yard switching and the run up the mountain with my RR the Southern runs 2 passeneger and 2 freights a day thru the juction and the GCRR runs 1 freight thru, with my RR's morning and afternoon run up the mountain that's 7 trains a day plus yard switching.

Tyson Rayles Wrote:Have you considered modeling a junction?

Mike;
Hadn't considered modeling a junction, but have considered modeling the station area of a mid-sized town, where there would be several industries. Would be based on some actual locations where I worked on the L&N, although it would be still be freelance.

Operationally, there would either be a locomotive and crew that operated strictly in that town with inbound and outbound traffic set off/picked up by through freights or you could operate it like the local freight arrived in town, switched the industries and then departed back to its home terminal.

Even though I've played around with this concept, I still seem to prefer the industrial spur theme. So for now, I'll continue to play around with that theme.

Ed, I vote for having no team-track.

I considered having a team-track on my layout, but I realized that it ruined the appearance of an industrial spur, like you have said before, team tracks are normally found around freight yards or are a major industry by themselves.

Including a team-track is a great temptation, but I think that replacing it with another industry such as a lumber company would help the spur look more prototypical.

But in the end model railroading is about what makes you happy, and if a team-track makes you happy then go ahead!

Including a team-track is a great temptation, but I think that replacing it with another industry such as a lumber company would help the spur look more prototypical.
------------------------------------------
I kinda doubt if a lumber company or home supply company would be found in a industrial area..From my experience the handy dandy overly used lumber company doesn't apply to all situations.

ISLs requires a lot out of the box thinking after all its a industrial area. A transload track could be used for a nearby industry that receives bulk material-this could be a old industrial spur from a factory that has been razed.A new metal building some piping leading to a "off layout" industry would suffice.This industry could be across the street from the unloading area-if space permits a building flat could be use across a street..This would add interest.

Why didn't the manufacturer add a spur? No approach due to a neighboring truck served industry.

Brakie Wrote:ISLs requires a lot out of the box thinking after all its a industrial area. A transload track could be used for a nearby industry that receives bulk material-this could be a old industrial spur from a factory that has been razed.

That would work, Small trans-load tracks that serve local businesses are good since they aren't overly compressed to the point of unbelievability.

Large trans-load tracks that could handle a large variety of cars at once are often in a massive facility that would be big enough to take up an entire ISL.

Whatever plan Ed decides on I'm sure it will look good!

Justinmiller171 Wrote:

Brakie Wrote:ISLs requires a lot out of the box thinking after all its a industrial area. A transload track could be used for a nearby industry that receives bulk material-this could be a old industrial spur from a factory that has been razed.

That would work, Small trans-load tracks that serve local businesses are good since they aren't overly compressed to the point of unbelievability.

Large trans-load tracks that could handle a large variety of cars at once are often in a massive facility that would be big enough to take up an entire ISL.

Whatever plan Ed decides on I'm sure it will look good!

The larger transload tracks is usually operated by a independent bulk unloader and could be located in a industrial park,near the yard or anywhere there is space for this type of operation.

A team track is still in use in some areas but,bulk transloading and warehousing has all but killed the down by the freight house team track.

Seems like we've got some interesting discussion going on here regarding the use of a team track or transload facility on an ISL.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:I considered having a team-track on my layout, but I realized that it ruined the appearance of an industrial spur (...)

After messing around some with the idea of having a team or transload track as a main industry on the layout, I'll probably go back to a plan that does not include one. Although most modeler's would vote yes for a team track because they tend to be a sink for various types of cars/commodities, it just seems out of place to me. And as Justin pointed out, it rather ruins the overall feel of an industrial spur.

Looking at several prototype modern day transload facilities; having just a single long track just doesn't look right to me and changing it to have a least two parallel tracks, seems to over power the layout. As I mentioned in a previous post, most modern day transload facilities would and could be a complete layout.

My goal is to have an industrial spur with industries on both sides of the switching lead and in that regard, I'll probably go back to a variation of one of my previous plans. I've found several really interesting, prototype industries that would work fine on the front edge of the layout and would only need have a very thin profile structure (or none at all) between the layout edge and the track.

Justinmiller171 Wrote:Including a team-track is a great temptation, but I think that replacing it with another industry such as a lumber company would help the spur look more prototypical.

Although right now I may or may not include such a facility, a lumber yard or building products distributor is certainly a potential industry on an industrial spur. You'd only need model a concrete/asphalt pad around the track, surrounded by a fence, some stacks of lumber and perhaps an unloading dock with the actual structure off the bench work.

Brakie Wrote:I kinda doubt if a lumber company or home supply company would be found in a industrial area

Actually, lumber dealers and/or building products distribution centers are pretty commonplace on industrial spurs. I've found many examples while exploring different areas with Google/Bing.

Here are just a few examples that some folks might find interesting for ideas to use on their own layouts:
Hialeah, FL (BlueLinx) http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=25....3&t=k&z=18 Note: Callum in his SSWUP ISL thread has modeled this very facility on his layout as a foreground facility and with excellent results: Look toward the bottom of this page: http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic...1&start=90

Denver, CO (BlueLinx) http://maps.google.com/?ll=39.771154,-10...3&t=k&z=18

Marietta, GA (Capitol Materials) http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=33....2&t=k&z=19

No less than three (3) in this large industrial area in Phoenix, AZ
(Capital Lumber) http://maps.google.com/?ll=33.448035,-11...3&t=k&z=18
(Lumbermans Inc) http://maps.google.com/?ll=33.446377,-11...2&t=k&z=19
(Home Depot Distribution Center) http://maps.google.com/?ll=33.444795,-11...3&t=k&z=18

Of course you can find many more examples if you look around, including many in more rural looking areas.

Hope this information is useful. As for me, it's back to the drawing board.