Brakie Wrote:Ed:It's still a thought and would make for an interesting scene, being able to look inside the structure with a detailed interior, but just can't think of a good way to work it.
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Could do it as a non rail industry or have the car spot outside.

Same here. I like the concept, but just no practical way to work it that I can find. Having the track outside the building would be workable and I've tested that idea out. Guess the main thing holding me back on that idea is the fact that you can't see the cars spotted there when viewing the layout. Even though I currently have one structure with the track behind the building, the track isn't so long that you can't stand at the end of the bench work and see the cars spotted there. But having large structures on both sides of the lead does give you more of that concrete canyon look - just may not be practical in the long run.

Brakie Wrote:I like the plan without the run around..Simple but,very efficient since it leaves lots of room for scenery.

I would probably add a transload track only because I want to model a scene with a van(box) or flatbed truck being loaded from a boxcar and plan on modeling a trailer drop lot.

I do like the concept of including the transload track as in the first (current) plan. Not only can I have a scene where a van could be unloading beer or something from a box car, but I like the idea of having covered hoppers unloaded there too using a portable conveyor. I have a really nice feed hopper truck that is perfect for that and scratch building a simple portable conveyor or two would be easy enough.

I've been operating the plan as shown in the first (current) version for some time now and am pretty well satisfied with it, but for whatever reason, I keep looking at other possibilities. Does leave more room for more of Mother Nature's scenery. I know that the plan looks simple, but it's deceptive. Lot's more operation than people would tend to think at first glance.

I know you've noticed that there are road crossings to block while switching LOL. "Complain all you want Mr. Motorist, we've got a job to do!"

Appreciate your thoughts and comments.

Hey Ed,

whats happening? Keep us updated....always good to read your thoughts!!

SSWUPinSA Wrote:Hey Ed,
whats happening? Keep us updated....always good to read your thoughts!!

Actually nothing happening right now. Some health issues have more or less put a halt to working on the layout, not to mention the fact that I can't settle on a final track plan. Maybe something will fall together one day in the near future. Even considering downsizing my layout plan somewhat, but that would mean I'd have a lot of surplus cars that wouldn't be used on what ever plan I settle on.

For now, I pretty much just operate the current temporary track plan a couple of times a week and between that and seeing some of the great switching layouts the fellows on here have been doing; tends to keep me inspired.

[attachment=7998]As I had mentioned in a previous posting (27 Dec 2010), this looks like it's going to be my final track plan arrangement. After a lot of experimenting with various track arrangements, I really can't come up with anything that suits me better and having temporarily put the track down and operated the layout many times, must say that I'm quite pleased with the plan.

The plan is designed to fit a 16 inch deep by 16 foot long shelf, with a 4 or 6 foot removable staging track (4 foot on this drawing). All turnouts are No. 8 (or the Peco equivalent to a No. 8) which give a more prototype look and smoother flow of the track.

For the benefit of those who may not like the straight looking track plan, it's based on this portion of an FCEN industrial spur in northwest Orlando, FL., and matches the actual track arrangement quite well, although I don't model the connecting turnout and have added a highway overpass, about where the curve in the photo starts, to conceal the end of the main layout.[attachment=7997]Of course my layout will be located much further North from Florida and the time period will be between 1978 and 1980, so I can have all those colorful short line IPD box cars. I've also picked industries for my ISL that are ones that appeal to me and also support my freight car fleet, along with industry names that are more appropriate for my part of the county; so of course this layout is entirely freelance.

Right now, the spur is supposed to be located on the L&N (one of my former employers), but I may later change it to be a spur operated by a fictional switching company or short line operator. Motive power is currently an L&N MP-15dc along with an NW-2 (yet to be painted L&N) and now and then I switch the layout with an L&N C-420 like we often used on our local freights. Love those ALCo's! Layout power is of course DCC with sound equipped locomotives.

Industries are:
Durkee Foods - Spots one to two tank cars of vegetable oil, and one or two reefers or box cars.
Peerless Confections - Spots one tank car of corn syrup and one Airslide covered hopper of sugar.
Purina Pet Foods - Spots two covered hoppers of bulk DDG or the occasional box car of bagged DDG for manufacturing dog food.
Midwest Distribution Warehouse - Spots up to four box cars. The prototype facility is a large Xpedx distribution warehouse that receives paper products.
Lowes Lumber - Spots box cars of building products and bulkhead flats of lumber.

I'm still working on ideas for how I want to model the two industries that will be between the front edge of the layout and their respective tracks and have several ideas. Right now, I've just got some rather crappy looking mockups placed in those locations and have no problem with spotting and uncoupling cars behind the structures and feel that having structures located on both sides of the industrial spur, just looks and feels more prototypical.

Don't know when construction will start in earnest as I have some medical problems and Dr. Tomassoni is scheduling me for surgery, within the next few weeks, to hopefully correct the problems. Those heart doctors are busy fellows! For now, I'm quite happy and satisfied to be able to operate the layout and often have a friend over for impromptu operating sessions, which generally take an hour or longer for a typical session.

Ed,I think you made a wise choice..

I like it a lot.

As far as Slate Creek..Its on hold pending a move to larger quarters..Like you I am thinking of the Slate Creek Industrial park owning a locomotive but,I'm not sure.My choices will be either a GE 44 ton GE70 Ton.

BTW..I did change the produce distributor to a Crispy Kreme bakery since that made better sense.

Cops all over Ohio will be grateful to you Brakie. Earlier on the thread, someone mentioned that they hated putting more than one industry on one spur. According to Lance Mindheim (and I am a big fan of his work), this is how a railroad would prefer to do it since that's less turnout that they have to install.As a railroader, how accurate is that assessment.

Mike Kieran Wrote:Cops all over Ohio will be grateful to you Brakie. Earlier on the thread, someone mentioned that they hated putting more than one industry on one spur. According to Lance Mindheim (and I am a big fan of his work), this is how a railroad would prefer to do it since that's less turnout that they have to install.As a railroader, how accurate is that assessment.

Mike,Here's the thing..The rail served industry owns their siding not the railroad and in that light most industries would renege on sharing their track with another industry simply because while the other industry is being switch you will be paying your forklift operator or freight handlers to stand around waiting on the local crew to switch out cars for the other industry and that can take up to 30 minutes or longer plus the require time for respotting your car(s)...Try explaining why you have lost production man hours to the bean counters and upper management.

Also some folks may be confused since one industry may have several buildings on one siding and they may appear to be 2 or more industries.

Now here's why the railroads don't own the industrial track-maintenance cost and liability and the little known secret of embargoing a industry track for safety reasons and thus forcing the industry to fix the track or use intermodal.This leads to money saved by not having to switch that industry and the removal of a switch is saving maintenance costs.

I am also a big fan of Lance since he has done more for the advancement of modern design switching layouts then any magazine.

Ed, I think that is a great trackplan. I like that prototypical approach and it is a good idea to add this highway overpass to hide the end of the layout. Hope you are back to good health soon, not just because I’d like to see that layout being built.

Thanks Kurt. Like many others, I've been inspired a lot by the work done by Lance Mindheim, but must say that you're No. 1 in my book! Doubt that my modeling will ever be on the same level as the work you've done, but I'll be happy if my efforts just come close to yours.

It's so refreshing to see modelers taking a prototype approach to both track planning and operation and clearly demonstrate that you don't need switching puzzles with dozens of switches and short tracks to have "operation" on a small layout. Seeing the work done by you, Lance and a few others will hopefully get more people interested doing layouts like these.

Once I get the health issues resolved, then perhaps I can really get going on this plan. For now, I'm quite happy just being able to operate the plan some and stop wasting so much time planning and achieving nothing. I may even get up enough nerve to post photos of what I manage to accomplish.

Hey Brakie, that makes sense. But what would be the reason for 2 different customers on one spur? Would it be that a customer with 2 buildings went out of business and the subsequent tenants would occupy the two different structures? Would it be reasonable to extend a spur to reach a nearby customer or a trackside customer would be located on a spur before the original customer is reached?

I'm not trying to put up an argument, just trying to understand. On my layout, I have 2 customers on one spur, but I don't have to worry about pulling one car to replace another since the customer closest to the turnout is for cement/aggregate deliveries.

Hey FCIN, I love your layout design. It looks like a fun layout to operate. If I had half the space that you do, I would still go the same route that you are. I just think that it's so funny that I just discovered inglenook layouts on Carl Arendt's website at the same time that I started noticing Lance Mindheim. Now I wish that I had the space to put up a switching layout

Another question that I have to all is that instead of putting a temporary staging track on the end, why not just put a fold up/fold down or temporary track with some scenery so that it looks like a part of the layout insttead of a piece of track hanging out in space?

Mike Kieran Wrote:But what would be the reason for 2 different customers on one spur?

I've seen and worked lots of locations on the railroad where there is more than one customer on the same spur. You can find many such locations if you look around. I will say that in most such situations, you're more likely to find more than one customer on the same track in small towns or rural areas then in today's modern industrial parks. Many industrial areas in large cities that were and still are rail served, will have many such locations where there are several customers on the same spur.

If you look at the CSX Miami downtown spur that Lance Mindheim is modeling and follow it to the end, you'll see lots of locations where there is more than one customer located on the same spur or where there used to be more than one customer on the same spur.

For example: Here's one location http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=n8zmq28...orm=LMLTCC. If you rotate the view looking south, you'll see that there are two customers on that one spur. Another example: http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=n8zp0k8...orm=LMLTCC where you have two customers on the same spur. Looking closely at this location, you can also see how that spur once had a dog-leg in it and served yet a third customer across the street.

I personally have no problem with there being more than one customer on the same track and at one time in layout planning, was going to have just such an arrangement. It does interfere with customers when you have to pull their cars in order to spot cars for a second customer, during working hours, but often industrial spurs will be switched at night when this is less of a problem. Like many other things in the railroad business, it just depends on who, what and where.

Main point is, if it fits then don't worry about it. Such an arrangement can also add operating interest too.

Mike Kieran Wrote:Hey FCIN, I love your layout design. It looks like a fun layout to operate...

Another question that I have to all is that instead of putting a temporary staging track on the end, why not just put a fold up/fold down or temporary track with some scenery so that it looks like a part of the layout insttead of a piece of track hanging out in space?

Glad you like the plan and it is fun to operate. Even if I had less space and had to omit a customer (even two) I'd still have a similar track plan.

Since you mentioned it, I do plan on having the removable staging track to have scenery on it so that it does look like it belongs on the layout. Just will be no more than 6 or 8 inches deep as there will be no reason for it to be any deeper and eliminates having to put a lot of scenery on that piece. As for it being made as a fold down piece - that won't work that great in my case (want more length) so mine will just be designed so that I can lift it off. It will be supported on one end by the main layout and by either a single shelf bracket on the other end (must leave a door way open when not in use) or perhaps some sort of fold down leg support.

FCIN, what about a folding portable shelf. Shortliner came up with a handy portable folding switching layout that might come in handy for the extension. I am actually toying with this idea for a marshmallow factory switching layout. I was thinking of three 27 inch sections or three 36 inch sections.

Mike;

That's pretty neat, but I think it would be a lot of trouble getting all the mechanical connections lined up just right (hinges specifically). I believe in keeping things as simple as possible.

Marshmallow factory? Would that be based on the Kendallville Terminal Railway? I actually started modeling that several years ago after visiting the line, but never got much further than laying and wiring the track. At the time, I couldn't get hold of enough corn syrup tanks and two bay Airslide covered hoppers to duplicate the switching, so pretty much gave up on it. Move forward about 7 years and I now have more than enough of both type cars to base a layout on the KTR, but of course have picked other suitable industries for the same car types.

It is an interesting operation and a good choice for a small switching layout. If you're modeling the KTR, do you plan on including the interchange and storage tracks at the north end of the line? I managed to squeeze in both of the two tracks that went into the Kraft plant and the runaround and one storage track on a 16ft shelf.

Actually, believe it or not, the hinges were from two cheapo plastic folding carpenters rules - couldn't get paste table hinges for love or money at the time (They'd have been my first choice as they would also have been the interboard wiring connection across the joints), and the whole thing worked without any problem - much to my amazement! The Box still exists - with another layout sitting in it at the moment!
Best
Jack

FCIN, I wish that I had the space to build a shelf switching layout like the Kendallville Terminal Railway. Unfortunately, I am banished to a small roundy round (see my thread for the Port Able Railway). If I were to do a shelf switcher, I would do something like Shortliner's Folding Terminal in three 27x12 inch hinged modules (81x12 inches total).



Squarepuff Marshmallow Company

A Division of Regina Foods

Carloadings By Month:

Inbound:

16 Tank Cars (Corn Syrup)

24 Covered Hoppers (Granulated Sugar)

3 Covered Hoppers (Gelatin)

2 Covered Hopper2 (Confectioners Sugar)

5 Boxcars (Packaging)

10 Hoppers (Coal)
60 Inbound Cars Total

Outbound:

15 Boxcars (Marshmallows)
15 Outbound Cars Total

My wife is right, I do have too much time on my hands.