Scifi fan Wrote:Thanks for the welcome. 
I don't think I would need to film the interior - but I'll be gathering a writer's group to go over that. Basically, I want to show that's how people in a space station get from one place to the other - it's too small for cars or bikes, but trains would be useful.
Okay - now we are (albeit painfully slowly ...) getting somewhere.
You are
not trying to create a model of a New York Subway or a tram - you are trying to create the impression of a futuristic looking automated people mover in a space station. Maybe something like "the plane train" between the terminals on Atlanta's International airport in Atlanta, Georgia.
On the airport in Atlanta, the platform where people stand waiting is separated from the train by a glass wall with doors. A train glides in and stop so the doors on the train match the doors on the platform, and then both sets of doors open and people board and disembark. Not totally unlike the way air locks might work on a space station. Here is a Youtube film where you hear the typical automated loudspeaker messages:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gRf8L37lrE
Next step. You are not trying to create a set (i.e. something big enough for human actors to board and ride) for a scene, are you? You are just trying to create a miniature model you can film a train arriving and departing from a station (or possibly a couple of stations). Or are you planning to film tunnels or whatever from the train as it moves?
Why the 44" length requirement? I know you say it was necessary for realism, but frankly - someone who seems to think think that a H0 scale livestock car used in first half of the 20th century to move cattle would be relevant to the subject of moving people and freight on a space station may not be the best judge of realism. What is it about 44" that is so magical?
Stein, puzzled
Yes, it is for a futuristic low-budget indie.
The 44' is what I've been told by model makers who work for film, though 22 inches can work in some cases. But, as a general rule, the bigger the better.
I want to film the train as it arrives and leaves. The background will be a rocky wall, like the interior of a mountain or, in my case, an asteroid - the station is carved into an asteroid, so there will be an internal atmosphere. Some of those carriages will be for humans, others will be for cargo. Obviously, the more futuristic, the better.
Do you know where I can get models of trains like those in Atlanta?
Scifi fan Wrote:Yes, it is for a futuristic low-budget indie.
The 44' is what I've been told by model makers who work for film, though 22 inches can work in some cases. But, as a general rule, the bigger the better.
I want to film the train as it arrives and leaves. The background will be a rocky wall, like the interior of a mountain or, in my case, an asteroid - the station is carved into an asteroid, so there will be an internal atmosphere. Some of those carriages will be for humans, others will be for cargo. Obviously, the more futuristic, the better.
Do you know where I can get models of trains like those in Atlanta?
Yes. You can pay a professional model maker to build them specially for your film (at some cost). Then you can construct from scratch a large scale station - also at some cost. Or try to find an enthusiastic friend willing to work for free for
many hours to create something like that.
There is no mass market for ready made large scale models of automated people movers. Heck - there isn't even much of a market for such trains in the scales most model railroad hobbyists work in - i.e. 1:160 scale (North American/Western European N scale) or 1:87.1 scale (H0 scale).
If we estimate that a real 1:1 scale car is about 60 feet (= 720 inches) long, then a 44" long model would be about 1:16 scale, while a 22" long model would be about 1:32 scale. The closest you would get with ready made trains and tracks would probably be garden type trains at about 1:20 or so. You would then have to take off the superstructure of the train, and replace it with one scratch built (typically in styrene plastic) for your people mover. But at least you would not have to build the moving parts of the train - the motors, power pickups etc.
Smile,
Stein
I'm assembling a group to help me make the miniatures, and we'll go off the shelf, if possible - I think H0 would suffice. But aren't there model trains for people as well as cargo???
You are saying you need models that are at least 22 inches long or better, 44 inches long. But you say that HO scale is what you want? Do you realize that a real 82 foot long passenger car in HO scale is only 11 1/4 inches long? In most science fiction movies in space the cars appear to be about 20 feet or less in length, or about 3 inches in HO scale. I suggest you go to Georges Trains or another hobby shop that caries trains and get them to show you the different scales so you can see the actual sizes of these models. They should also be able to tell you about the local model railway clubs, and when and where they meet. 22 to 44 inches in length would be G scale or larger.
Prairie Trains Wrote:You are saying you need models that are at least 22 inches long or better, 44 inches long. But you say that HO scale is what you want? Do you realize that a real 82 foot long passenger car in HO scale is only 11 1/4 inches long? In most science fiction movies in space the cars appear to be about 20 feet or less in length, or about 3 inches in HO scale. I suggest you go to Georges Trains or another hobby shop that caries trains and get them to show you the different scales so you can see the actual sizes of these models. They should also be able to tell you about the local model railway clubs, and when and where they meet. 22 to 44 inches in length would be G scale or larger.
You guys could be right - I'm going to the hobby train this week to get a better look. Meanwhile, I've also asked my film buddies about the size of the model needed. Thing is, many are using CGI, so using and making miniatures for film and TV could be a lost art.
If you're in Atlanta, then you have both a city transit system and the airport people mover handy right there. The city probably has a bureau that makes it easy for filmmakers to get whatever permits they need, if you want to go that route, and for a low budget film, that's got to be something you should be looking at carefully. For that matter, it seems like anyone with any practical experience at filmmaking (I speak as a Hollywood resident) would be thinking in that direction, and the fact that your plans seem to be awfully fuzzy suggests you're an amateur here.
It certainly sounds as if you have little or no experience filming miniatures, and that suggests the whole project you're considering is something of a blue-sky proposition. If you're just a bunch of people sitting around and doing whatever and deciding you're actually indie filmmakers, I guess that's great, but bringing the rest of the world into that fantasy may prove harder than you think.
Absolutely. I'll be honest and say I have no filmmaking experience, and, yes, this is all blue-sky talk. But I am NOT just a guy or even a bunch of guys sitting around talking (or sitting around posting on the internet, for that matter). I have got a professional film director on board, and I am also learning the business from an experienced film producer. My job now is to get a team together to make miniatures, and the owner of a makeup studio did express interest, though I don't know if that will come through.
So, yes, this is all talk, but things are slowly coming together - emphasis on slowly.
I think I've got what I need for now. Thank you very much, everyone - I really appreciate the help you've given me.
If anyone lives in the Pacific Northwest and wants to help out, send me a PM. Thanks once again.
Scifi fan Wrote:Thanks for the welcome, Andrew. I live in Vancouver, and I used to work in Ottawa.
I want something that looks like an underground passenger car, like the one you see in NY - those look more futuristic. The Walthers look good, but I will need to gather a team.Do you know any clubs in my province?
You can check the listings for clubs at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.nmra.org/">http://www.nmra.org/</a><!-- m --> (US-based with Canadian clubs as well - look under regions & divisions on the left side of the page) or at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.caorm.org/">http://www.caorm.org/</a><!-- m --> (Canadian equivalent).
The other thing you might do is ask at City Hall about any models that have been made of transit projects. I know there was one done here in HO scale for the "OTrain" (Ottawa's preliminary LRT) using the available HO scale model of their Bombardier Talent BR643 DMU diesel-powered vehicles depicting their northern station. I think the guy who made it is a member of one of the clubs in Ottawa.
Hope that helps.
Andrew
Scifi fan Wrote:Absolutely. I'll be honest and say I have no filmmaking experience, and, yes, this is all blue-sky talk.
No surprise there, mate :-)
But good luck anyways! If the guys behind "Iron Sky" could make a movie, maybe you guys can too.
Smile,
Stein
One "Futuristic Tram System" that comes to mind, is the one featured in "Logan's Run".
I'm thinking that if this is to be a "futuristic" transport system, you might be better off with an original design, even if the budget doesn't allow for "Modeling costs". Where cost is a determining factor, the KISS principle (
Keep
It
Something
Simple )
needs to apply.
And....... this:[
attachment=10672] , is
not something simple.
I wonder if it would be worth you looking at "Trainz - Metropolis edition"? A modern city tramway with beautifully detailed graphics - the cars ar very similar to the N scale Portram ones
To bad you can't find one of those old Lionel "moon train" sets. though it was "O scale" it ran on broad gauge "futuristic" tracks, and had a futuristic look to it without being to over the top. I can't find any photos, but i have an old advertisement in an ancient model railroader.
That said, its probably a rare and expensive set, but it would do the trick.