Repowering a pair of hudsons

[nkp_174]

I recently purchased a motor for my On3 2-8-0 project...but also chose to nab a few additional motors while I was at it. I picked up three Maxon 2232 coreless motors with the intention of using one in the 2-8-0, one in my favorite hudson, and the third either in my #2 hudson or in another 2-8-0. I also got a few others.

They arrived yesterday. The 2232 is magnificent in my 2-8-0. Unfortunately...which I sort of expected...it is a bit too fast for my hudson. Sure, it moves slow enough that the only way I can tell its moving is by watching the worm gear slowly rotate, but it hits 90mph at around 20% power...so it makes sense to either regear (which I was expecting) or install a slower motor. I previously didn't know if the gearing in my hudsons was junk or not. I thought it would be...but it clearly isn't. The hudsons are brass imports from Japan in 1977. They were noisy and poor runners. I know now that the gearing is actually fine...and so I'd prefer not to regear it...the open frame motors were the problem (on the contrary, the newer open frame motors in my Athearn/Roundhouse 2-8-0 and MDC HOn3 2-8-0 are staying as they're fine).

So, I also received a Maxon 2522 and a Canon can motor (which is comparable in size). The 2522 is much slower than the 2232. So, I tested both the 2522 and the Canon in one of my hudsons. The 2522 is definitely the nicer of the two (there is no comparing coreless and can motors imo...except for their prices). I plan on using the 2522 in my #1 hudson and the Canon in my #2. One of these will be NKP 175 and the other will be NKP 176. I have additional work to do on one of the frames due to a design flaw in the valve gear of these. Both motors are small enough that the cabs will be receiving backheads.


All seven motors cost me $100...which is an average of $14.30 per motor...not bad for 5 coreless and 2 quality can motors. I've been looking over my fleet of locomotives to see what else might benefit from a new motor

[doctorwayne]

You're right, Michael, that's a really good price - around here, a similar-sized can motor runs $35.00-$40.00. I trust that we'll be seeing some progress photos when you do the conversion work.

Wayne

[nkp_174]

Of course! I pretty much just have to create some sort of bracket for the motors, run power feeds, and they'll be back in service.

The one that needs work on the running gear is my favorite...due to its elephant ears (which date it as being after 1946). The other is correct for 1944-45. After I fix the running gear, #1 will receive the coreless, some paint, and lettered. #2 needs its paint stripped, elephant ears added, and then re-decorated. I plan on getting the motor conversion finished soon...but I'll have to order some Scalecoat paint for the repainting...so that will have to wait.

Here's a picture of #1 from before...

[iis612]

That is a really nice looking engine. I can't wait to see it finished. I would love to get a good brass loco, but I am afraid of the sticker shock. hock:

Matt

[nachoman]

That is a really nice looking engine. I can't wait to see it finished. I would love to get a good brass loco, but I am afraid of the sticker shock. hock:

Matt

I hear ya. This is a rough economy, and my wallet is staying closed until I run out of projects that i already have started.

[nkp_174]

Older imports don't cost anything like what modern imports costs. The production runs of the Japanese imports were much larger than the modern Korean runs. I consider $1600 for an HO locomotive to be about 5x-10x more than I'd ever consider.

Two years ago, I purchased an On3 brass 2-6-0 for $230. It isn't great, but its much cheaper than the new diecast engines. I also purchased another NKP hudson for $230 (iirc). It had a poor paint job and lacked elephant ears, which lowered its price. Of course, these purchases pretty much grounded my hobby budget for the rest of the year.

My view on brass is that I'll buy it if it is a model of a locomotive I really want, yet isn't available in plastic/diecast and the price is good enough that it makes it easier than bashing something else. I see it as the way to obtain less popular prototypes to run, not collecting or a way to get better power.

There have been at least 4 NKP berks offered in plastic/diecast, so I see no point in brass (sorry Tony K.). I'd rather modify a plastic engine to equal or exceed a brass one. There have been numerous USRA light 2-8-2s to use for the NKP's H-6 mikes. While there have been NYC H-5s in brass, I'll probably use athearn usra or b-man 2-8-0 mechanisms when its time to build mine. For 2-8-0s, I'll have to bash a B-man 2-8-0 and scratch build any others I'd like...there isn't even a starting point for bashing. The 0-8-0s and 0-6-0s I'll use normal USRA power as starting points...plastic USRA. The 4-6-0s are scratch from the ground up. The 4-6-2s start from USRA light mechanisms...none have been offered in brass. That leaves the eight NKP hudsons as the only locomotives which are an option in brass. The starting point for a bash would be a USRA light 4-6-2 mechanism.

As for my South Park...I'd rather start from scratch or bash a BLI 2-8-0 to obtain South Park and C&S 2-8-0s. The brass ones are only C&S...and they are too pricey for me. Modern moguls are available, the only 1880s import is slightly below my standards, and the modern ones are too $$$...B-man's 2-6-0 is a better starting point. I hate working with brass. It is slow and doesn't yield a better result than plastic...so I won't bash a brass import. That leaves only the Mason Bogies. I won't pay the $1000+ price for one of them...they're not worth 1/2 that to me. If a diecast one is released, I'll get it. Since I'm targeted 1884-85, I don't need Mason Bogies. The 30 locomotives from Cooke displaced the Masons.

The engine pictured here I bought in 2004...didn't get the valve gear straightened out enough to run until 2006...and probably won't be painted or received a Tsunami for another year.

[jglfan]

I had forgotten that some Hudsons got elephant ears. I took a look for my NYC Power book, but don't know where I've left it. I only remember the Niagara's and some L4 Mohawks having them. I thought they were deemed not particularly effective so were not used on other types. I assume it was some of the J3's thet had them applied? Can you tell me how many and their #'s?

Thanks

[nkp_174]

I had forgotten that some Hudsons got elephant ears. I took a look for my NYC Power book, but don't know where I've left it. I only remember the Niagara's and some L4 Mohawks having them. I thought they were deemed not particularly effective so were not used on other types. I assume it was some of the J3's thet had them applied? Can you tell me how many and their #'s?

Thanks

I don't believe that any NYC hudsons ever had elephant ears. These are NKP hudsons...but the two are closely linked.

During the winter of 1926-27, 5 steam locomotives of a new type were being designed and built at two separate ALCO facilities. The one at Schenectady was an evolution of its railroads K-5 pacifics, while the four at Brooks were an evolution of its railroads K-1 pacifics. All 5 locomotives at tractive effort a little north of 40,000 pounds. The first one finished was the one at Schenectady and delivered in February as NYC 5200. The other four at Brooks were completed during February and delivered during March...some of the last locomotives produced by Brooks. The 5200 was one of 275 on the NYC, the 170-173 were 4 of 8 on the NKP. The 5200 had 79" drivers, the 170 had 73" drivers. Ironically, while the 1st hudson was cut up along with her 274 siblings, the 2nd hudson sits in St. Louis, MO and is the best cared for locomotive in their collection. 170 was nearly joined in preservation by 3 of her sisters (1 Alco, 2 Lima)...but the untimely death of their new owner sent the 173, 174, and 175 to the torch.

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I do also have a Rivarossi NYC J-3a, but I have a strong preference for the NKP's hudsons...afterall, my handle on here is the first Lima built NKP hudson...174

Here's a link to some pictures of them:
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IIRC, 170 was the only one to receive a Mars light (the second, ugly headlight). It was also put on display while the Lima hudsons were still backup power for the PAs and hauling excursions.

[eightyeightfan1]

I like the looks of brass locos too. The detail is excellent on the ones I've seen at shows.
But I'd hate the look of Better-Half if I brought one home....and told her what I paid for it.

[nkp_174]

The boobers and I took the NKP 177 to Sodor for a test run...


I temporarily jumpered the motor to the existing electrical pickups...which I will be replacing. It runs nothing like it used to...much better...quiet and smooth. It is a touch slow, but acceptable. It might eventually get a coreless 2422 as well...but this will do for now, especially since repowering it isn't a high priority. The motor is currently taped into place.

Here's the little guy enjoying the show...


18" curves are too tight for this locomotive...its crude old style pickup causes the tender and cab to be opposite polarities...rather than isolated...and the touch on the curves. The 177 ran great on the straight track.

[Steamtrains]

WoW....Two stars in one picture...!!! I think I like the one with the side-by-side headlights the best...!!!

Were the Pacifics & Hudsons the ones with the largest drivers (excluding the ol' timers with their huge drivers)..?? I think that's what I find so appealing in those two types...the drivers really stand out....

[nkp_174]

WoW....Two stars in one picture...!!! I think I like the one with the side-by-side headlights the best...!!!

Were the Pacifics & Hudsons the ones with the largest drivers (excluding the ol' timers with their huge drivers)..?? I think that's what I find so appealing in those two types...the drivers really stand out....

Typically they were. NKP hudsons had about the smallest drivers I can think of on a hudson...essentially equivalent to the USRA light pacifics...73" drivers...while the NYC's and most other hudsons were more like the USRA heavy pacifics...79" drivers. The tallest drivers I can think of were the 84" drivers on the Milwaukee Road's Atlantics & F-7 hudsons, and the Santa Fe's big hudsons. The NYC 4-4-0 was the only comparable 19th century locomotive...equipped with 86" drivers for a publicity stunt. The smallest drivers I can think of on a 4-x-4 were the N&W 4-8-4s with their 70" drivers.

In the 1880s, 60" drivers were standard on 4-4-0s (the standard freight & passenger power)...with some classes having 66" drivers and some 4-6-0s having 56" drivers. switch engines had 48" drivers. I am giving typical numbers here, not outliers. In 1920, I would say that 51"-57" were typically for switchers, 57"-63" for freight power, and 69"-79" were typical for passenger power. After 1930, switch engines were the same, with freight power typically being 63"-69" and passenger power being 73"-80"...with 4-6-2s, 4-6-4s, and 4-8-4s pulling the varnish.

The NKP's modern switchers had 51" and 57" drivers. The branchline engines had 57" and 63" drivers. The freight engines had 63" and 69" drivers. The passenger power had 73" drivers.

I think I'll work a little bit on the #1 hudson today...but I'll be spending most of the day on my 2-8-0 which I'll be posting in the next few days in a Scratchin' & Bashin' thread.

[jglfan]

Thanks for the info, glad to see I haven't lost my mind entirely! I just assumed NYC due to the elephant ears, and also assumed you wouldn't be wrong about them being on a Hudson, as you seem to be well informed. For the life of me I would've sworn no NYC Hudons had smoke deflectors. I think you had posted about problems on the height of the stripes on a '38 Century before, right? Despite your nkp moniker, I thought you were talking NYC.

[nkp_174]

Your welcome for the reassurance that your mind is intact!

NYC power is a pretty cool book. Many NKP modelers actually use NYC pacifics as NKP power, but from studying NYC Power and the NKP 4-6-2s, there really isn't anything close. C&O Power is one of my favorite SG books, but the two NYC Power books are quite nice as well.

Yep, I that was me whom posted about the stripes. I love passenger equipment. I'm building a fleet of On3 passenger cars. I'm planning a fleet of NKP passenger cars. I'm working on a fleet of NYC passenger cars...but I still plan to park them behind an old Rivarossi J-3a.

Besides, despite my moniker, I talk DSP&P more than NKP