Caboose usage

[nachoman]

What were the rules requiring when a caboose had to be used on a train? Were cabooses typically used on short locals of only 3-4 cars that only travelled a few miles? What about on mining/logging/industrial trains? I have seen photos of such trains with cabooses, and have seen photos of such trains without. Obviously there would be no caboose used when just switching cars in a yard - but at what point does a "short switching maneuver" actually become a "train" necessitating a caboose?

My thinking is there had to be some kind of rule that dictated when a caboose had to be coupled onto a train. Perhaps it had to do with distance travelled, speed, number of grade crossings, etc. Anyone know and care to fill me in?

[Steamtrains]

Good question..!!
Being a caboose-anatic I'd never thought of it. If a train leaves the yard, I just couple one on...long or short train, it makes no difference-nor does the distance to travel. Looking forward to what the more knowledgeable have to say about it...

[Bob C]

Well, I'll attempt a start on this one. Once upon a time, ...NO, wrong theme! Prior to the crew reductions (from a 5 or 6 man crew) allowed by the proliferation of PORTABLE radios, the caboose carried part of the crew, and the MARKER (without which a train is not a "Train") ! It also allowed observation of the rear portion of the train for trouble (smoke, dust, lading on the ROW, etc.) and the continuity and function of the AIR line and brakes. Train length wasn't a consideration. To eliminate the cabin/waycar/caboose/hack, a reliable, continuously verifiable means of displaying a MARKER (to show that the train had ALL it's cars), to warn following trains, and to be able to monitor the air pressure at the rear end. The telemetry marker with long lasting (?) batteries, and a radio relay of marker light function and air pressure (including EMERGENCY action), allowed the removal of the shack-on-wheels. Some cabins are still used for specific jobs where safety or efficiency dictates, (riding a shoving move for long distances, lots of bi-directional moves, etc.) as determined by the railroad. I'm sure that's not all, but I'm out for now. Bob C.

[Puddlejumper]

Bob C has a great start on this topic. Also at one time cabooses were assigned to conductors. So any job you as a conductor reported for work on, your caboose came with you. The rear end brakeman and flagman shared your caboose with you. the rest of the crew, the head end brakeman, fireman, and engineer, of course shared the cab of the hog.

dave

[MountainMan]

Some of it depends on what time period. I've got photos in reference books of "trains" made up of an engine, a single car and the inevitable caboose. The narrow gauge types never went anywhere for any reason without one. In one instance, it's an nothing but an engine and a caboose!

[nachoman]

Bob - good overview. But suppose a trusty USRA 0-6-0 was instructed to head down the line 3 miles, and pick up 4 loaded boxcars and bring them back to the yard. Would they have left the yard with just the locomotive and a caboose, and came back all three miles with the locomotive, four boxcars, and the caboose? Or would such a short trip with such a short train not required one?

[Bob C]

Depends on several things: Whose railroad are we using - the Dispatcher controls main, secondary, and various other types of lines. If you are using a Main Track to get there and back, and you are running as a "Train" ( ie.,"Train PKC-3"), absolutely! If on an industrial or yard track, maybe not. Provisions were made for moves without a caboose, but special instructions would be in force concerning the air test, marker provisions, and your "permission" to occupy the track, and additional operating and safety rules about which you were expected to be familiar...that's why they gave you a timetable and rule book, and made you go to class yearly. They told me when I started - "Anything can be done...but it must be done properly or somebody's gonna get hurt !" Bob C.

[Puddlejumper]

Also if you have a 5-6 person crew you need that hack even just to pick up 4 boxcars 3 miles away. Not enough room in the cab for 5-6 people.

[Brakie]

Cabooses was used for many things besides the crew..

It was a place to store tools,extra lantern batteries,chains,rerailer,do paper work etc..It was a handy storage area as well.

The real reason railroads dump the caboose was job elimination from brakeman to service track laborers that clean and service the caboose PLUS the elimination of a yard crew that added or removed cabooses and switch the caboose track.

As far as what constitutes a train.


A light engine movement on the main/branch line with or without a caboose or markers is a train.
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Puddlejumper wrote:Also if you have a 5-6 person crew you need that hack even just to pick up 4 boxcars 3 miles away. Not enough room in the cab for 5-6 people.
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On the contrary..I seen 5 men ride the cab of a SW7...2 was seated and 3 was standing.We left our train at the urban industrial branch yard(a whopping 3 track "overflow"yard) while we went up a 5 block branch to pick up 3 cars.

[Puddlejumper]

Puddlejumper wrote:Also if you have a 5-6 person crew you need that hack even just to pick up 4 boxcars 3 miles away. Not enough room in the cab for 5-6 people.
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On the contrary..I seen 5 men ride the cab of a SW7...2 was seated and 3 was standing.We left our train at the urban industrial branch yard(a whopping 3 track "overflow"yard) while we went up a 5 block branch to pick up 3 cars.

The most people I ever had in the cab was 5, on an Amtrak P40. The Amtrak crew, myself and a CSX engineer as a pilot crew, and a RFE. It was tight. But if I worked back in the caboose days I prolly would take my cabin with me if I had a 5 man crew. Sure you could all fit up there, but why? Especially if you have to shovel coal into the firebox with all those men up there.

Dave

[Brakie]

Puddlejumper wrote:Also if you have a 5-6 person crew you need that hack even just to pick up 4 boxcars 3 miles away. Not enough room in the cab for 5-6 people.
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On the contrary..I seen 5 men ride the cab of a SW7...2 was seated and 3 was standing.We left our train at the urban industrial branch yard(a whopping 3 track "overflow"yard) while we went up a 5 block branch to pick up 3 cars.

The most people I ever had in the cab was 5, on an Amtrak P40. The Amtrak crew, myself and a CSX engineer as a pilot crew, and a RFE. It was tight. But if I worked back in the caboose days I prolly would take my cabin with me if I had a 5 man crew. Sure you could all fit up there, but why? Especially if you have to shovel coal into the firebox with all those men up there.

Dave

Dave,Here's the mob in the SW7 cab..
Seated Engineer and Fireman
Standing,the conductor,the other brakeman and myself..

Way?
Simple..It was to save needless work..

Now if we had cars to take with us the cabin would have went due to the reverse move and the need to flag crossings.

As it was all we needed do do was make a light reverse move,couple on to the cars and reurn to our train.

As far as shoveling coal back in the steam days the conductor would ride the head brakeman's seat(located behind the fireman's seat) and both brakeman would ride the engine foot boards on the reverse move..On the return both brakemen would ride in the cab standing in the gangway holding the grab irons.This would leave room for the fireman to sling coal or work his fire.

[Puddlejumper]

As far as shoveling coal back in the steam days the conductor would ride the head brakeman's seat(located behind the fireman's seat) and both brakeman would ride the engine foot boards on the reverse move..On the return both brakemen would ride in the cab standing in the gangway holding the grab irons.This would leave room for the fireman to sling coal or work his fire.

Doh! Forgot about the footboards... they were outlawed long before I hired on. There is also the tender deck.

[Bob C]

...And the "doghouse" that some (PRR) tenders had...cramped, dirty, sometimes wet...but you don't have to help shovel ! Bob C.

[nkp_174]

Caboose usage varied over time...as did the union contracts, ICC rules, and state laws.

In the early years, there were no cabooses (or cabeese...depending upon which plural you prefer). The South Park was 4-5 years old or more before it obtained its first caboose. The Colorado Central was a decade old before it purchased its first caboose. The Nevada County Narrow Gauge was nearly 70 years old before it built its first caboose.

In the days of hand brakes, the brakemen and the conductor needed to be on the top of the train to adjust the brakes. The engineer would whistle and they'd run along the top of the train applying them. The conductor would keep his paper work either in the cab or in one of the cars. After vacuum and air brakes became wide spread, the crews didn't need to ride on the top of the train anymore.

In the early years, before building the line up Kenosha Pass, the South Park typically used their combine on the end of their freight trains...just as the Colorado Central typically used a passenger car as well. The South Park's early line was relatively flat, so the weight savings of a caboose over a passenger car were irrelevant...and a similar situation existed on the Colorado Central (empties went upgrade, loadeds came down). With the longer trains over steeper grades and longer runs, cabooses allowed greater tonnage and provided a rolling hotel for the crew...they also had vacuum brakes on the South Park at this point, so the crew didn't need to stay up on top of the cars. Also, purchasing additional cabooses was cheaper than either more passenger cars or lawsuits. Some railroads rarely ever used cabooses or passenger cars at the ends of their trains...even into the late 1940s.

Across the country, cabooses came into vogue after Eames and Westinghouse started to really thrive. On short lines, they never really caught on as the crews were never far from home, speeds were usually slow, and trains were relatively short. For instance, the EBT is well known for its crews preferring the combines.

After WW2 in Indiana, any train longer than...67(?) cars required an extra crew. This was a result of the union's ties with the state legislature, as it didn't serve any purpose, but it provides an interesting detail for modelers of Indiana railroads. The extra caboose was usually tucked in behind the locomotives on the NKP.

The 4-wheel bobbers, IIRC, were mostly eliminated by ICC rules early in the 20th century. I don't know why the Colorado & Southern was able to escape. Many 4-wheel bobbers were rebuilt into 8-wheel cabooses. West Side Lumber and other non-common carriers were not subject to such rules and as such, they were not bound by ICC rules.

[Brakie]

...And the "doghouse" that some (PRR) tenders had...cramped, dirty, sometimes wet...but you don't have to help shovel ! Bob C.

Actually from what I been told most P Company brakemen would ride in the cab..

As far as brakemen shoveling coal..

Nope against the Union work rules and not to mention he's not a qualified Fireman..