Rebuilding and digitalizing a brass gasoline rail coach

[Herc Driver]

You deserve much more than a simple email post of thanks and appreciation. What great work. Really inspiring work. All the detailing and planning is readily apparent when you look at the finished work. Really - really well done sir!

[Tom]

I would say it's a red marker lamp for reverse moves.

[MasonJar]

I agree with Tom. Makes sense to light a red lamp when running in reverse with the (front) headlight dimmed.

Andrew

[modelsof1900]

Thank you very much for your affirmation of my own opinion however I wasn’t sure with it. Now I know what I must do!
Thanks also for the compliments again. I think that I will do what I can do using my simple technologies and without a high technical equipped shop. And I’m lucky about your interest and hints getting better models yet.

[MasonJar]

Hi Bernhard,

You do fabulous work regardless of the state of your shop!

I have a Lambert brass Mack Railbus that one DCC guru at our club has said is impossible to convert to DCC due to the configuration of the motor and power pick-ups. However, it must be possible, as I have seen one done (no idea who did it so I cannot ask... ).

I'd appreciate your opinion. Here it is:
[albumimg]52[/albumimg]

If you are not familiar with the configuration, I will take some more photos and post them. The motor is under the floor, the pick-ups are from the rear wheels only and are very short and tight, and pretty much integrated with the motor.

Thanks!

Andrew

[P5se Camelback]

Andrew ...

You may have to remotor and build a new system of power pick-ups (to isolate everything electrically) but I don't believe in "impossible," no matter what self-professed Gurus claim. I've been told that my C.1958 open-frame motored Gem Olympia Reading 2-8-0 Class I-5c Consolidation (with the cute tender canopy) will be impossible to convert to DCC.

Oh, YEAH? ...

WATCH ME!!!

So far, I have engineered (with appropriately dimensioned to-scale mechanical drawings) a new motor mount fabricated from 0.020", 0.040", 0.060" styrene parts designed to be welded together using lacquer thinner into a very stable, solid motor mount -- think that will isolate the motor from the frame?
Next step ... re-engineered power pickups. This is important, as I now have three of these little puppies!

When you want something and you put your mind to it - really use your head ... nothing is impossible!

[modelsof1900]

Andrew,
I will give you an answer in one or two days. I need a short time in order to write an answer in a readable English. Sorry for moment but an answer will come.
And what for interesting facts! I own two more rail busses, smaller than the NYNH&H railbus here in thread and I plan their digitalizing in future also, definitively! And they must run with DCC!

[MasonJar]

Thanks Bernhard!

I look forward to your input, and I will try to get some additional photos up.

Andrew

[modelsof1900]

Here a picture before I will give an answer to you, Andrew.



These are all my three railbusses and they all have a real background in original.
The smallest yellow bus is pictured and described in the 1922 Car Builders’ cyclopedia and it is called a Gasoline driven motor rail car, built by Brill – unfortunately no erecting year is available.
The brass model (left) is very similarly to your model but there is a big difference. My model has a four wheel rear truck and yours has only a single axle at rear; however both are built by the Mack motor Co. Your model looks very, very close to pictures and drawings in the 1922 Car Builders’ cyclopedia again and it is lettered for NYNH&H as class 9000. This should be a good idea to model a rail bus of this railroad.

This is a few first information - more about the original rail busses than your model. A next post will folow.

[modelsof1900]

Andrew,

I think the main problem is the bad power transfer from the rails to the motor.
I think you should change the power transmission from all six wheels to the motor. This is that what I would realize in first position. The front truck should be movable in all directions, so that all four wheels contact the rails in each situation, also while running on poorly laid rails. The model should get so a three-point base with a fixed rear axle and a free movable front truck. If you can than change the front truck so that the side frames and wheels can free follow to twisted rails.



See this picture in order to understand what I will say with this.



Try to add power feeders to all four wheels of front truck similarly to this.
These first changes should include also replacing the short and hard pick-ups by longer and softer pick-ups to rear wheels. In case that the motor does not drive the rear wheel smoothly than you should think to replace the motor also including the gear. I gear must be replaced so try to get a gear with a bigger gear ratio than the original. But this should be the second step in changing the model. The first must be to get a break-free power supply to the motor.
Write please if this will be a help for solving your problem. I hope that we can find a solution in order to get a well running digitalized model.

I wish you success for first changes.

[MasonJar]

Bernhard,

Thanks - I had considered adding pick-ups to the front wheels, but you post has me thinking that maybe they should be the ONLY pick-ups. That might allow me to eliminate the "short, hard" power transfer from the rear pick-ups on the back axel. This integration of the pick-ups on the back axel with the motor was supposedly the biggest problem in adding DCC.

So thanks for that - I will take a closer look.

As far as the motor and transmission go - it is a very smooth runner on DC, and with the motor under the floor, has a great interior. The decoder will go in the baggage compartment at the back, as it already has a frosted window.


Andrew

[modelsof1900]

Andrew, adding pick-ups to frontwheels will be a mistake. You must have pick-ups on front AND on back-wheels, definitively. If you should read this in my post than I have written unclear. Sorry!

[modelsof1900]

Hallo, an old modeling project is back on my worktable – my unfinished rail coach.

After last discussions I added a red LED into the “back-up lamp” – see here. I rearranged the wiring and prepared the inner lighting and then – a diode flashed up and the decoder did not more react. Ok, this was a case for longer advisements and replacement the decoder – until last week.
The problem was to replace the destroyed LED because resistors were placed inside of model behind the LED, also I must do a bigger repair. However all is done and now I think if I should insert small LEDs into all four marker lamps? Unfortunately I do not know the use of correct colors of these marker lamps or should I say classification lamps?
I found this link - for using white, green and red marker lamps.
However I’m not sure how I should use the marker lamps because I can insert white LEDs only. My rail coach has a white front lamp and two red back lamps when it will run forward, similarly is realized for running backwards. Should the marker lamps are lightened only at front side or also at back side? Should the marker lamps are shining only at front and change to backside depending from running direction of the coach? What do you think about this?
Please write your mean or ideas for solving my problem. It will be a great help to me. Thank you very much for your answers.

[doctorwayne]

Bernhard, the small lights are designated as classification lights when on the leading end of the loco (regardless of whether it's the front or rear of the loco or railbus) and as marker lights when they're on the trailing end. Your second link covers the use of classification lights, and unless you're operating the railbus in the manners outlined, the small lights on the leading end would not be lit. Those on the trailing end would show as red (to denote the rear of the train).

If your railbus (or any locomotive, for that matter) is operating as an "extra" (unscheduled train), the leading small lights would be lit white. If the loco is part of a train running in "sections", the leading small lights would be lit green unless the loco is the final section - in that case, they would not be lit.

The simplest arrangement for your railbus (and probably most common on the prototype) would be to have the leading ones unlit, and the trailing ones lit red. This would represent a regularly-scheduled train running as a single section. Wiring would need only to switch so that the leading lights are unlit, while the trailing ones are red.

Wayne

[modelsof1900]

Wayne,

thank you very much for your extensive explanations of use of marker lights/classification lamps.
Your thought written in third part of your answer gives a good idea for realizing however I would like to use a more attractive solution. Can I write it and ask you and all others for your arguments?

First of all, such a rail bus and also this model will/must run in forward direction chiefly. So my wished lighting idea should make a sense. I let run the bus as an extra and it must have white classification lamps at front. Because I have at end two red lamps marking the train end (and I can unlit them when an additional car will be hooked on) so I must not use additional red marker lights at end.
The absolute exception will be a backward run over the line. This will be an “extra” in each case and than I should have also two white classification lamps at end of model. The model has got a red backward run lamp at front after last modification and so this “train” will be secured at and by a (one) red lamp.
The third case will be switching the rail bus. For this case white front and back lamps are shining an all red and marker light/classification lamps are unlit.
What do you think about this? Can this be also a solution for my rail bus? However installing red diodes will not be a problem to me; I ordered enough white and red LEDs also for use to next projects.

Thank you very much for your discussions and arguments.