Question concerning Sergents couplers

[Russ Bellinis]

For any who are not aware of it, the July issue of Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine is now available for download. The issue includes an article by JBakko from the Gauge on using Sergents couplers. One point mentioned in the article concerns the fact that while the Sergents will couple to Kaddees, the limited coupler swing available can cause cars to derail going through curves. Have any of the modelers here who use Sergents couplers done any experiments to see what sort of minimum curve radius is needed for the Sergents to work with Kaddees. I'm thinking in terms of relatively short freight cars (60 feet or less) not passenger cars or long freight cars. On the home layout I'm planning, I expect to use 100% Sergents couplers, but on the modular club layout our standard couplers are Kaddee #5's. If I were to run the Sergents on the club layout at a show during an operating session (as opposed to "Christmas tree" running) I would probably have the need to couple 2 cars together where one car had the Kaddees and the other had the Sergents. Our module standards call for a 36" minimum radius.

[eightyeightfan1]

I have the same problem between Kadees and the Bachmann EZ Mates.
Thats why I try to convert to all Kadees.

[Russ Bellinis]

I just read through both of the articles on the Sergents once more and noticed that they make a standard shank coupler and a narrow shank coupler for use in scale size draft gear boxes. That got me to wondering, would they work on a tighter radius if you were to use the narrow shank models in a standard Kaddee draft gear box?

[Russ Bellinis]

I posted this same question on the Model Railroad Hobbyist's forum, and received a couple of responses that I think others would find useful. The author of the Sergents article in the July issue reported that he tried mixing Kaddees with Sergents on a 28 inch radius and the cars derailed. Another person responded that the Sergents worked fine for him down to an 18 inch radius on 50 foot cars. This other person also reported that he had difficulty uncoupling closr coupled passenger cars with diaphragms with any sort of Sergents uncoupling tool. It looks to me like the Sergents will be very practical for my use on a home switching layout, but not practical on the club except on my own trains where I don't attempt to switch with other club members rolling stock. It also looks like the Sergents are completely out for use on passenger equipment art this time.

[nkp_174]

I've heard the same about passenger cars...currently a no-go.

Thanks for sharing about the potential problems with mixing Kadees and Sergents. I would like to switch over to Sergents in time...but my present priorities prevent it.

[nachoman]

Couplers are one area where I will gladly trade functionality for appearance. While I like the appearance of show-quality models, that route isn't for me. I want my trains to be functional first, and look good second. Of course, I want things to look reasonably close to what they are in real life, but if added details cause something to be significantly less functional, then I won't go that route. Kadees look good enough to me, and work well enough, so that is the route I have chosen. Sergents look better, but I have heard mixed reviews as to functionality. If they functioned just as well and cost the same, I would make the switch.

The same goes for superdetailed rolling stock. All the added details look great, but if handling them become cumbersome because I am trying to avoid breaking details, then I won't bother with the extra details. Most of the time, people won't notice anyway.

Thanks for the info on the couplers, as this answered a few questions I have had as well. Perhaps if I am choosing to superdetail a special piece of rolling stock that i don't plan on running very often, I will put on sergents and see how they perform.

[pgandw]

Couplers are one area where I will gladly trade functionality for appearance....

Just as in using Kadee couplers extensively in operations, to use Sergent couplers operationally requires some attention in the layout design phase. The 2 primary differences between Kadee and Sergent couplers operationally is that 1) Sergent couplers do not couple automatically, and 2) Sergent couplers cannot be uncoupled with magnets or electromagnets mounted in or under the track. The implications of these differences are that you must have easy reach-in access with the wand to every place you want to couple or uncouple. The Sergent couplers may have to be aligned or have a knuckle opened to couple. And wand access is required to open a knuckle to uncouple. Due to lack of a centering spring, Sergent couplers can be coupled and uncoupled on sharper curves than is possible with the Kadees.

I prefer not to reach into the layout with the "hand of God" for normal layout operations. Hence, I trade the appearance of Sergents for the ability to perform remote coupling and uncoupling of Kadees.

my thoughts, your choices
Fred Wright

[nkp_174]

Russ, good work in starting a fine thread!

Being a link and pin fan...and having a well below average level of interest in operation, I can see that I am the target audience for Sergents. I really don't care for Kadee style magnetic uncoupling...or Kadee whiskers. How many people use magnetic uncoupling? I personally don't know if it is a majority or minority of modelers. Most of my equipment has Kadees as I prefer the look and performance of Kadees to horn-hook, loop, etc couplers...and I prefer their metal construction and springs to most of their competitors (I use McHenry's on my Rivarossi and IHC passenger cars).

Certainly Sergents aren't for everyone...in the same way that sound, Proto:87, and narrow gauge aren't either. (my brother absolutely hates all three...I am quite fond of them!)

[Russ Bellinis]

I have done switching operations on modular set ups with Kaddees, some modules had under track magnets, other modules did not and required some sort of pick to uncouple or lifting one car off the tracks to clear the Kaddees from each other. I did not like magnetic uncoupling. It might be okay with electro magnets or a moveable magnet that would be brought into position only when I wanted to uncouple. I found that with the hidden Kaddees, the slightest hesitation of a train going over the magnet caused unwanted disconnects. In fact the member that had put in the magnet on his module got so fed up with the magnet, that he ripped up the track, removed the magnet, and replaced the track to get rid of the magnet. I'm still not sure what to do about passenger cars. Kaddees are just about impossible to uncouple with diaphragms, especially if the trip pin is still in place. It might work to design a hidden track behind the backdrop where a magnet could be slipped into place for uncoupling, or remove to take the train out onto the main line.

[jbaakko]

I just read through both of the articles on the Sergents once more and noticed that they make a standard shank coupler and a narrow shank coupler for use in scale size draft gear boxes. That got me to wondering, would they work on a tighter radius if you were to use the narrow shank models in a standard Kaddee draft gear box?

No.

The shank remains the same width. The retaining pin hole is molded smaller and the area around it is narrower, to fit into the narrower box.

Russ, if you plan to go to Sergent couplers, I'd recommend buying some of the dummy Gatzl couplers, or making conversion cars, avoid the kadee-sergent coupling.

[Russ Bellinis]

I won't be trying to combine Kaddees and Sergent's. I run mid 1950's with an occasional foray into 1930's or 1940's steam on the modular layout, so I will continue to run Kaddees at the modular club set ups. My home layout will be the Los Angeles Junction near the turn of the century (2000, not 1900), and will run Sergent's. We are close to having our remodel on our house completed, and once that project is finished, I would like to see about joining the La Mesa Club at the San Diego Model Railroad Museum as a visiting member. Since I am retired, I would plan to go down once a week during mid-week to run trains. If I am accepted for membership by them, I will check to see what they think of using Sergent's on the Tehachapie layout.