Operating question

[foulrift]

I have a question concerning layout operation. My switching layout has 2 small yard tracks and I would like to know if these tracks should be left empty prior to starting a switching session? The A/D track holds 4 cars without fouling the roadway that crosses the track. Should one of both of these yard tracks be left open to aid in switching cars in and out of the industries?
Thanks for any help.
Bob

[Triplex]

Remember that your operating session represents a slice of time in what is in reality a continuously (more or less) operating railway. So yes, there should be cars standing around at the beginning. But not everywhere should be full - since when does that happen in reality?

[BR60103]

If you look at operation as a game, putting cars in your yard tracks is moving you up to a more difficult level. If you find it too easy with no cars in the yard, add a couple. With experience you'll be able to operate with the yard half full. At some point, though, the congestion will take away from the fun.
We visited a layout once and one fellow operated the yard in the back room and claimed he'd managed to move one car in the whole session. (It was built by a professional railroader. I was moving one car out of a siding and got a call that the company hadn't finished unloading it yet, and could I please put it back.)

[nachoman]

I'm with David here. I'd start with the tracks empty, and then let your operating scheme evolve into what feels right for you and for your layout.

Remember, it is impossible to operate a model railroad exactly like the prototype because of compromises we make:
1) We have no real connection to the outside world.
2) Our model freight cars don't really carry anything
3) Spatial compression.

In the real world, different railroads may have had different procedures and different crews may have had different preferences as to how to switch cars. Many of the things we do to operate our layouts are to simulate real world scenarios. In your case, yard tracks are probably sometimes empty, and sometimes full. The railroad may be storing extra empties sometimes, may have MOW cars parked there sometimes, or there may be a delay on the main line connection that requires the cars remain parked for an extra day. If you are using a card system, perhaps you could design scenario cards that tell you what is on each yard track on a given day.

When I eventually design an operating scheme for my layout, it will be a mix of what I think is logical, what the real railroad did, and what is necessary for my layout design (lack of a staging area, etc). I don't expect my scheme to be perfect from the start, and expect that I will have to let things evolve as I operate it a few times.

[foulrift]

Triplex,David,Kevin-I agree.Just another learning curve.I'll start fairly simple and see what develops and work up to more difficult sessions with more cars on the layout.
Thanks again
Bob

[Brakie]

Let's look at the prototype in less then a perfect world.
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More then likely those 2 tracks would be for holding overflow cars..

Now those 2 tracks could be empty for days at a time and then wham! there's several cars that needs to be held until the current car(s) is loaded or unloaded this is especially true for covered hoppers since the unloading is hampered by the storage silo capacity and a given shift production needs..

So,why not have cars spotted on those tracks every other operation session?

Don't forget there will be a need to switch these cars into their industry destination..I usually switch these cars into their industries without a replacement inbound load.

[Brakie]

Kevin wrote:Remember, it is impossible to operate a model railroad exactly like the prototype because of compromises we make:
1) We have no real connection to the outside world.
2) Our model freight cars don't really carry anything
3) Spatial compression.
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Now you didn't think I would let this slide did ya?
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1) We have no real connection to the outside world.
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We don't? Sure we do.
This is why its suggested cars taken to the interchange track be taken off the layout.See the "real" connection? Those cars are now gone.
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2) Our model freight cars don't really carry anything
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True and our locomotives doesn't run on steam or diesel fuel but,add sound we get the illusion our locomotives are operating by steam or diesel motor operating on diesel fuel.The use of waybills makes that stale air inside of our cars valuable "cargo"..Waybills adds the illusion that we are indeed hauling "freight".
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3) Spatial compression.
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That age old enemy can be conquered by using larger industries instead of several smaller industries.After all 3-4 large industries that looks like they need freight cars(and some times can use more then 1 type) more then a industry that looks small even with a 40' boxcar sitting at its dock.
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The concept of operation is a illusion that we are modeling a transportation system and that's why many of us try to emulate the prototype in our operation..

[nachoman]

[quote="Brakie"]
1) We have no real connection to the outside world.
------------------------------------------------------------
We don't? Sure we do.
This is why its suggested cars taken to the interchange track be taken off the layout.See the "real" connection? Those cars are now gone.

What I meant by that is we have interchage tracks that simply assume the connecting railroad (0-5-0 or staging yard) picks up and drops off cars in routine like fashion. But, we have a more diffiuclt time modeling delays by the connecting railroad, changes in economy, or etcetera that go on beyond the borders of our layout. The "0-5-0" is much more reliable than any prototype railroad.
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2) Our model freight cars don't really carry anything
-----------------------------------------------------------
True and our locomotives doesn't run on steam or diesel fuel but,add sound we get the illusion our locomotives are operating by steam or diesel motor operating on diesel fuel.The use of waybills makes that stale air inside of our cars valuable "cargo"..Waybills adds the illusion that we are indeed hauling "freight".

But, do we take time for loading and unloading, for car maintenance, simulate loaded weight, or other concerns that come with having the cars actually loaded? Some people do, but those are still simulations and compromises, and they arent always the same as the realities a real railroad would face.

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3) Spatial compression.
----------------------------------------------------------
That age old enemy can be conquered by using larger industries instead of several smaller industries.After all 3-4 large industries that looks like they need freight cars(and some times can use more then 1 type) more then a industry that looks small even with a 40' boxcar sitting at its dock.
--------------------------------------------------------

But inevitably our yards are smaller than prototypes, with fewer and shorter tracks, and that may require some "non-prototypical" maneuvers to deal with. Also, our mainlines and distances between towns are shorter - sure we have fast clocks and other compromises people use - but those are still comproimises.

[Brakie]

Kevin wrote:But inevitably our yards are smaller than prototypes, with fewer and shorter tracks, and that may require some "non-prototypical" maneuvers to deal with.
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Kevin,Don't bet the farm..I recall the ends on 2 urban industrial branch lines on the PRR that left a lot to be desired due to the lack of head room at the end of the run around track-it would fit a SD9 size engine and 3 50' cars-there was no extra head room for working a foundry and a manufacturing plant that was located just below the North switch of the run around.Of course we had to make extra moves when siting out 6 or 7 gons at the foundry.At one time there was room to spare but,a bridge was damage in a flood and never repaired by the PRR because there was no customers located across the river since the customers switch from rail to trucks.

Also there was a neat 2 track yard that would only hold 14 cars.This yard was used for a stock yard that closed in the early 30s.PRR used it has a "overflow" yard but,it was seldom used for anything more then storing out of service wooden MOW cars.

[foulrift]

Kevin-Larry Everything you say or suggests make perfect sense.Given the fact that this is my first switching layout there is going to be much to learn and in the long run I'll just have to see what works and what doesn't.
Thanks again for the tips.
Bob

[nachoman]

Did you ever dedcide what to do here? The reason I ask is that the past week or so, I have been playing around switching cars in my small yard - and it is a *lot* more challenging (and fun) when the tracks are mostly full!

[BR60103]

I don't know if I've said it here, but compare the model railroad game to playing golf. If each golf hole was a big funnel with the hole at the bottom, most people could go round in 18 stokes. If each hole was at the top of a big cone of sand, nobody would finish hole 1. Fortunately, we can create and remove our problems between sessions. You can also add restrictions -- one siding has a soft spot just beyond the switch and you can't run a loco over it; you have to use those empty cars as shovers.

[foulrift]

Thanks Dave.The idea of creating restrictions gives me something to think about.
Bob

[Lester Perry]

I am coming in to this a little late, but the way I do it is. Leave it where it is. Pick it up next session or maybe several sessions later depending on how the orders come around. I have 13 businesses including 1 large coal mine and 3 small mines and exchange track. Spot the car there and leave it until it is called out.

[foulrift]

Thanks Lester-Sounds like a plan.
Dave - I took your suggestion about adding a restriction. I now have an industry that now requires an idler flat in order to spot a coupler of cars. No photos yet but I will post some as soon as I can.
Bob